Comparing the RG to a Marlin 336
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Comparing the RG to a Marlin 336
Here is a comparison of some of the weights against a 336 (Glenfield 30)
This picture, for me, shows the biggest difference between my Marlins and the RG.
The round on the left is loaded specifically for this rifle, 2.420" OAL. The one on the right is for my "G" with an OAL of 2.550", both loaded rounds using the bullet I designed for the 1895. The RG's brass had to be trimmed back to accommodiate the oversize cast bullet because the RG's chamber is cut to the SAAMI spec without all the airspace that Marlin has been cutting in their chambers.
Let me offer some details of the SAAMI spec, the Marlin cut and then the RG cut.
SAAMI lists the following:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.011" (+/- .015)/.465" (+/- .002)
Bore: .457" (+/- .002)
Groove: .450 (+/- .002)
Step: .069" at 12°45'.There is no throat,lead, or freebore.
The 1895G, from my chamber impressions:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.100" (+.089" vs. SAAMI)/.483" (+.018" vs. SAAMI)
Groove: .457"
Bore: .450
Step: This is where the Marlin really varies from SAAMI. The step is .050" at 12°79' but then they throw in .10" of freebore and another .1451" of throat at 1°5'. for a total length of .745" (+.676" vs. SAAMI). Because of the start diameter, this creates a huge gap of airspace around a SAAMI spec bullet that must be filled with ogive length and additional diameter, hence my .460" bullets.
The RG45-70, from my chamber impressions:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.102" (+.002" vs. SAAMI)/.463" (-.02" vs. SAAMI)
Groove: .457"
Bore: .445" (.005" deeper cut)
Step: .073 at 4°70' (+.676" vs. SAAMI)
This said, the ammunition I have was custom made to fit the oversized Marlin chamber. It does not fit well and must be forced in the chamber. For cast bullet shooting this cartridge needs a .458" or .459" at the greatest. Heavy bullets will need to have the brass trimmed to meet the chamber requirements. The SAAMI spec is based on 300-grain or 405-grain bullet. The two rounds of factory ammo I had on hand, WW 300-grain JHP, went from tube to chamber and out like poop through a goose.
Cast shooters should be extremely pleased with the chamber cut. What this means is that you can actually buy the typical cataloged mold and it is going to work and work well. If Rossi started to clone the Marlin lineup, my cast bullet business would be in trouble as I have bullets cut because a manufactured ventured from the spec.
On another note, the action on this rifle is extremely smooth except at the point that the lever starts to close moving the bolt back against the upper radius of the hammer. There is a bit of a hang up there that takes some effort to get across. The hammer actually moves up ever so slightly as it starts to rotate with the bolts forward movement exerting an upward pressure against the lower surface of the bolt. With the bolt in this fully aft and unsupported position it is binding ever so slightly as it tries to achieve alignment with the matching surfaces of the receiver. That concerns me for a couple of reasons that I will get into a little later today. I also have quite a few innards pictures that I would like to comment on but it is time to take my granddaughter to school. I will leave you with this, I remain very happy with the Rossi offering as it is what a carbine should be, lightweight and easy on the carry.
This picture, for me, shows the biggest difference between my Marlins and the RG.
The round on the left is loaded specifically for this rifle, 2.420" OAL. The one on the right is for my "G" with an OAL of 2.550", both loaded rounds using the bullet I designed for the 1895. The RG's brass had to be trimmed back to accommodiate the oversize cast bullet because the RG's chamber is cut to the SAAMI spec without all the airspace that Marlin has been cutting in their chambers.
Let me offer some details of the SAAMI spec, the Marlin cut and then the RG cut.
SAAMI lists the following:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.011" (+/- .015)/.465" (+/- .002)
Bore: .457" (+/- .002)
Groove: .450 (+/- .002)
Step: .069" at 12°45'.There is no throat,lead, or freebore.
The 1895G, from my chamber impressions:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.100" (+.089" vs. SAAMI)/.483" (+.018" vs. SAAMI)
Groove: .457"
Bore: .450
Step: This is where the Marlin really varies from SAAMI. The step is .050" at 12°79' but then they throw in .10" of freebore and another .1451" of throat at 1°5'. for a total length of .745" (+.676" vs. SAAMI). Because of the start diameter, this creates a huge gap of airspace around a SAAMI spec bullet that must be filled with ogive length and additional diameter, hence my .460" bullets.
The RG45-70, from my chamber impressions:
Chamber length/diameter - 2.102" (+.002" vs. SAAMI)/.463" (-.02" vs. SAAMI)
Groove: .457"
Bore: .445" (.005" deeper cut)
Step: .073 at 4°70' (+.676" vs. SAAMI)
This said, the ammunition I have was custom made to fit the oversized Marlin chamber. It does not fit well and must be forced in the chamber. For cast bullet shooting this cartridge needs a .458" or .459" at the greatest. Heavy bullets will need to have the brass trimmed to meet the chamber requirements. The SAAMI spec is based on 300-grain or 405-grain bullet. The two rounds of factory ammo I had on hand, WW 300-grain JHP, went from tube to chamber and out like poop through a goose.
Cast shooters should be extremely pleased with the chamber cut. What this means is that you can actually buy the typical cataloged mold and it is going to work and work well. If Rossi started to clone the Marlin lineup, my cast bullet business would be in trouble as I have bullets cut because a manufactured ventured from the spec.
On another note, the action on this rifle is extremely smooth except at the point that the lever starts to close moving the bolt back against the upper radius of the hammer. There is a bit of a hang up there that takes some effort to get across. The hammer actually moves up ever so slightly as it starts to rotate with the bolts forward movement exerting an upward pressure against the lower surface of the bolt. With the bolt in this fully aft and unsupported position it is binding ever so slightly as it tries to achieve alignment with the matching surfaces of the receiver. That concerns me for a couple of reasons that I will get into a little later today. I also have quite a few innards pictures that I would like to comment on but it is time to take my granddaughter to school. I will leave you with this, I remain very happy with the Rossi offering as it is what a carbine should be, lightweight and easy on the carry.
Michael
Re: Comparing the RG to a Marlin 336
I have seen the new RG's out , but to be honest I really have not had a chance to see one up a personal. I appreciate all the info you posted. I think I may have to pick one up just, so I can give it a try, some very interesting observations.
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Re: Comparing the RG to a Marlin 336
Thanks for the great insight. This may be why we hear about tight chambers.
Graeme.
Graeme.
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Re: Comparing the RG to a Marlin 336
Recently sold an older RJ Marlin (not a Remlin) 336C in .35 Rem to my nephew.
Currently own a Rossi Rio Grande in .30-30.
The Rossi is smoother.
Currently own a Rossi Rio Grande in .30-30.
The Rossi is smoother.
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Re: Comparing the RG to a Marlin 336
If you want a levergun carbine with a high fire power/weight ratio you really need to get a Rossi R92 in .454 Casull.Ranch Dog wrote: I will leave you with this, I remain very happy with the Rossi offering as it is what a carbine should be, lightweight and easy on the carry.
Almost the same power as a .45-70 in a 5 pound package, tube loading capability and a 9 shot capacity magazine.
Pretty decent wood & good iron sights.
Try the Quake "Claw" shotgun sling system with a conventional eye and swivel attachment on the butt stock and a choker on the barrel. Won't fall off and no need to mess around installing a noisy metal band attachment around the magazine tube. Nice soft & wide neoprene shoulder strap. The gun is really accurate and will shoot .45LC.
For power & carryability in one package you can't beat it.
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Re: Comparing the RG to a Marlin 336
Most of this went right over my head ! :-(
So , is the RG a clone of a Marlin ? If so , is it close enough to possibly use Marlin / Brownell / Midway parts ?
God bless
Wyr
So , is the RG a clone of a Marlin ? If so , is it close enough to possibly use Marlin / Brownell / Midway parts ?
God bless
Wyr
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Re: Comparing the RG to a Marlin 336
WyrTwister wrote:Most of this went right over my head ! :-(
So , is the RG a clone of a Marlin ? If so , is it close enough to possibly use Marlin / Brownell / Midway parts ?
God bless
Wyr
It looks like a clone from a distance but up close and inside, things are slightly different.
Michael
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Re: Comparing the RG to a Marlin 336
pricedo wrote:If you want a levergun carbine with a high fire power/weight ratio you really need to get a Rossi R92 in .454 Casull.Ranch Dog wrote: I will leave you with this, I remain very happy with the Rossi offering as it is what a carbine should be, lightweight and easy on the carry.
Almost the same power as a .45-70 in a 5 pound package, tube loading capability and a 9 shot capacity magazine.
Pretty decent wood & good iron sights.
Try the Quake "Claw" shotgun sling system with a conventional eye and swivel attachment on the butt stock and a choker on the barrel. Won't fall off and no need to mess around installing a noisy metal band attachment around the magazine tube. Nice soft & wide neoprene shoulder strap. The gun is really accurate and will shoot .45LC.
For power & carryability in one package you can't beat it.
pricedo,
I am curious about the power potential of the R92 in .454 Casull. Seems to be a neat round. You mention that it has almost the same power as a 45-70. Just as a benchmark so that I can gain some knowledge, I'd like to know how it compares to my favorite (and most accurate) hunting load for my Marlin 1895's, which is a h/c 425g bullet pushed by H335 to 1,850 fps. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Dan
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Re: Comparing the RG to a Marlin 336
Everything in life is a compromise.Dan 444 wrote:pricedo wrote:If you want a levergun carbine with a high fire power/weight ratio you really need to get a Rossi R92 in .454 Casull.Ranch Dog wrote: I will leave you with this, I remain very happy with the Rossi offering as it is what a carbine should be, lightweight and easy on the carry.
Almost the same power as a .45-70 in a 5 pound package, tube loading capability and a 9 shot capacity magazine.
Pretty decent wood & good iron sights.
Try the Quake "Claw" shotgun sling system with a conventional eye and swivel attachment on the butt stock and a choker on the barrel. Won't fall off and no need to mess around installing a noisy metal band attachment around the magazine tube. Nice soft & wide neoprene shoulder strap. The gun is really accurate and will shoot .45LC.
For power & carryability in one package you can't beat it.
pricedo,
I am curious about the power potential of the R92 in .454 Casull. Seems to be a neat round. You mention that it has almost the same power as a 45-70. Just as a benchmark so that I can gain some knowledge, I'd like to know how it compares to my favorite (and most accurate) hunting load for my Marlin 1895's, which is a h/c 425g bullet pushed by H335 to 1,850 fps. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Dan
I like "near" .45-70 performance in a very light package........ a 5-6 pound gun (.454) vs a 7.5-8.5 pound gun (.45-70)......there is a cost for that 2 pound difference in weight.
One of my bias in favor of the .454 is my love for the gun it is chambered in. I love the Win 92 & its clones. This is not objective rationality but a pure subjective personal preference for the 92.
Let me put my "reality glasses" on & say the .454 is superior to the anemically loaded factory .45-70 ammo that needs to be safe in the many legacy .45-70 rifles still kicking around.
Is the .454 superior to or even equivalent to robustly loaded .45-70 Cor-Bon, Black Hills, Buffalo Bore or other +P factory ammo or aggressively loaded .45-70 ammo pushing bullets 100 or more grains heavier than the 240-300 grain .454 bullets?......of course not by a long shot (pun intended)!!!
In a "ft-lb to ft-lb", Taylor Knock Out Value or whatever measuring stick contest with your .45-70 caliber Marlin 1895 firing robustly loaded ammo my Rossi 92/.454 will LOSE.......that's not conjecture or opinion........that's hard fact.
My love for the Rossi 92 that hosts my .454 Casull and its carry-ability swayed my preference for the Rossi 92/454.
Obvious solution to the dilemma..... OWN BOTH !
I'm very fond of my .45-70 but not as much as my Rossi 92/454.
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Re: Comparing the RG to a Marlin 336
I shoot my two 454's more than my 45-70's by about 100 to 1. They are so much more "packable" than my stainless Guide Gun, they go out with me alot. And of course, one can't bring home loaded ammo, just isn't done! DP