Rossi Rifleman

I have some 245 gr swc that I want to try
I the 44 lever gun. If I use the oal suggested,they will not
feed. But If I go to the top of the driving band they will
feed pretty decent. Is there any harm I'm this ?
Should I reduce the load by a few grains. Appreciate any advice on this. And then use the factory crimp.

Johnny

Depending on the exact math regarding the bullet used one can usually do what you suggest if starting at a lower charge. I did similar when working up a load for 9X19 in a Ruger P95. I loaded them longer to get closer to the lands and increased the charge a little at a time until accuracy fell off. You would need to be specific which bullet, what powder and how much different your OAL is than in the book for anyone to know for sure.

I'll try to explain.. I have penns bullets
Like the Keith design. 245 gr. If I seat to book oal they will not feed thru my Henry big boy. But if I seat to the top of the last driving band they will feed great. My concern was the powder charge. They seem to be smug enough that maybe no crimp is needed,or I can use the lee factory crimp .. they work great in the 44 special,but I was concerned about the muzzle velocity being enough for deer out to maybe 75 yards if even that far where my blind is. Thanks. Hope this makes sense.

Back your load off 15 to 20% and work back up using your new OAL. Rule of thumb any time you change any thing in a load. My Big Boy steel tends to be a little sensitive to OAL depending on the bullet shape. It's a fact of life with lever guns as a species.

Make smoke,

Altering seating to facilitate feeding is nuthin' new.

Couple of things come to mind. First is the Keith bullet. My .44 R92 feeds Keith bullets ok in .44 special (I don't use .44 mag). But... ya know... rifles vary. The Keith bullet has that sharp corner where the meplat meets the pseudo-ogive. That's corner is the horsefly in the chicken soup. Ya might have to vary things, depending on your rifle.

Problem then becomes twofold. As has been noted, seating deeper will raise pressure. Oft said, but probably seldom followed with the zeal of a Moro warrior, ya really should work up loads whenever you change case brand (or even lot), primers, powder, bullet, or how they are all assembled, aka seating. Not quite enough information given JohnnyJr, but if you're loads are still in the .44 special range, not .44 mag equivalents, you're probably OK as is, because the brass will take it, and so will the rifle. The first being what it is, the second being rated for even .454 Casull pressures.

The second problem, also noted, is how ya gonna hold onto that bullet in the case, while you got a freight-train of bullets movin' fore and aft, trying to beat that bullet deeper in the case while yer firing? In your case, the answer is to seat to the top of, and crimp over the top band of the bullet. That'll be ok for not comin' loose (pulling out) but probably not be so good for goin deeper. Again, depends on how heavy your loading things.

Elmer's intent with his "Keith" design was based on three things. He wanted to retain bullet weight while increasing available powder space within the case. And he believed that three equal driving bands with a big grease groove gave optimum performance for case bullets at higher velocity. That's why a true "Keith" design has a short straight section, about half the length of the tip, before curving in to the flat meplat. If its a straight taper to the meplat, it ain't Keith, only "Keith-style". I don't think it makes all that much difference, but I'd not want to be the one to argue with Elmer about either (based on the fervency of his writing).

So after all that, if you wanna hunt some deer, and times growin' short to do this this year, why not some great coated bullets of the RNFP type in 250 grains or so? Those will kill'em just as dead, and I give a personal guarantee that the deer will not complain, call foul, that it did not get shot with a Keith shaped bullet. The RNFP will feed more reliably in "most" lever guns, and the coating will allow you to do two things. First, you can load 'em hot, not worry about leading. Second, if you have .44 special handguns (like I do), you can instantly identify your "rifle loads" from the handgun safe loads by the coating being present. I load my .44 special "rifle only" loads to between higher .44 special and the lowest end of .44 mag loading recipes. The rifle and brass could care less, but... I don't wanna mix those up and shoot 'em in a Charter or .44 Uberti single action. I'm sure the .44 Ruger GP100 would care less too, but I'll refrain, as these old hands would rather shoot than soak in hot water to get rid of the soreness. Yah, I'm old.

I tried some of these bullets in 44 special brass. My highest velocity was 1198. From the Henry rifle. Groups were fair at 25 yards. I don't cast so would have to order some and I doubt they would be here in time for the PA senior hunt.. I appreciate your kind replies. Think I am going to get 432/433 diameter. These are .431..

I just dug out of the deep confines of my reloading cabinet, a box of Missouri .44 "Smasher" which has their coating, and is RNFP, .430 and 230 grains. Mine measure .4305 consistently, and I'm guessing that's the coating. I don't know the velocity, but I'm loading 7.0g of WW231. I'm guessing, and its a wild guess...., that the velocities are about 1050 to 1100ish from the rifle barrel. I could go more, much more, probably up to the 10g or so level and they'd be easily safe in the Rossi and be in the 1500fps range. I might do that next go-round of loading, dunno. I mark my boxes with a 4 for 44 (and 5 for 45). And the rifle-only loads are 4R. Double round ball loads are 4Z and 5Z respectively (for those undead creatures that eat intestines like sausage links....). Those are fun to shoot in a handgun, BTW.

Today I loaded the last of my .44DEWC bullets with 5.0 of TiteGroup, and I see my usual sources are completely, 100 percently out of any sort of powder at all. Not a flake in the house. Same for primers. Only oddball brass, and weird weights and shapes in popular bullet diameters (aka, 165 RN for 45LC).

Talked to my two salesmen this week too... gun sales are even greater than before. Both said they thought folks who wanted a gun and were out of work due to pandemic, are back working, and still wanting that gun - and can now afford it. The one FFL has not had a new gun in a year. He refuses to sell above MSRP, and refuses to invest money to have such a small return on investment when he does sell at MSRP. Some day this will hopefully ease up a bit.

Win 231 is a fast powder and burns more or less all at once.
It is, like Bullseye mostly for short gun use.

I would be cautious about more powder as the pressure spike from those is narrow.
A slower burning powder will stretch the pressure rise and be better about extending the peak velocity without exceeding the pressure limits. I'd expect that even dropping down to unique would get you better results without risking pressure spikes and that it would be less positionally sensitive.

There are loads listed for 225g bullets and 13g of 231/hp38, so I think 10g is just fine. 231 isnt optimal...but its what I got left to use.

Around here Unique and 2400 disappeared, Accurate was never in decent supply.
Left us with mostly H110 plus a little Bullseye that trickled in. BE-86 showed up which at the time didn't really have any data other than the shop guys saying something like 'use the same data as Bullseye'. Which seems rather poor advice at best now that data is being published for it that doesn't come close to matching Bullseye.

I'm lucky enough to have 2400 and H110 on hand for several hundred magnum level loads.
Enough Unique, Bullseye, Power Pistol and Accurate #5 to load a case or two each of .45, 9mm and .38 Sp.
And I can get reasonably decent loads out of either 2400, Power Pistol or Unique for the 10mm.

I'm concerned about what I'm going to do to replace them as I use them up though.