Rossi Rifleman

I have both a 20" Rossi Carbine and 24" Rossi rifle chambered in 357mag. I got them NIB back in 2009 and they are my favorite range, plink, and woods walkin rifles, hands down. For 9 years I loaded them up with H110 and 158grn Zero JSP bullets with decently firm taper crimp as well as 158grn plated bullets with a slightly lighter crimp being careful on the crimp to avoid cutting through the plating. At 16.5grn H110 (slightly under max) with a magnum primer, I chrono'd the Zero bullets at 1,822fps for the rifle and 1,789fps for the carbine repeatedly at my range at 6,100ft asl on a mid 80's summer day.

I use my rifle with it's tang and globe sights to shoot at steel plates some 300yds down range. Surprisingly accurate and lots of fun. Anyway, about 1.5 years ago I decided I'd try a change of powder as my H110 charges in 357mag have a rep of being hard on brass and mine certainly proved it to be true. Hodgdon's Lil'Gun claimed significantly lower peak pressures with almost as high velocities in pistol length arms, with significantly less abuse of the brass, so I thought I give some a try. As the velocities in pistols were listed as slightly slower, I decided to load up some full charge weight loads (18.0grns Lil'Gun under my 158grn Zero Bullets) and see how they worked.

When I took them to the range early last May and gave them a go I noted that the recoil was stronger than with H110, but more of a stout push vs the sharper kick with the H110. That surprised me a bit until I thought about it some and realized that the larger charge of slightly slower burning powder was going to produce a heavier recoil even at a lower peak pressure. Unfortunately, this summer was dedicated to a number of trips to Europe so I didn't get to do my chrono testing until recently.

When I set up my rig and ran the first string of 10 rounds from my 24" rifle recently, the results were surprising, bordering on astounding! I thought that my chrono was off because I couldn't believe the results so I replaced the battery and shot a few rds from my Mini-14 that I'd previously chrono'd to compare the results. When I realized that there was nothing wrong with the chrono as my Mini's loads clocked what I expected, I decided to run another string with my Rossi.

That next string of 10rds from my rifle produced virtually the same data as the first. The high 10rd average was an astounding 2,011fps and the low one was 1,999fps averaging 2,005fps!!! The SD was a bit higher than I'd like at 18 but I can live with it as I've shot this load at my favorite target, bowling pins at 200yds from the bench, and the accuracy is good. So, next I chrono'd my 20" carbine which has run 1,789fps with the H110 loads for years. After 2 strings of 10rds I got an average of 1,952fps with an SD of 19 which I consider very consistent with my previous results with H110; slightly slower velocities but equally good SDs and accuracy.

The best part of this whole thing is that even in the heat of summer, my Starline brass shows none of the abuse that was common with H110. My primers show only the least amount of flattening, most still with rounded corners showing no high pressures compared to the absolutely flat primers with H110, and the base diameter measurements are way down showing significantly less pressure stress on it. It's clear that this batch will last much longer than what I've become use to with my H110 loads.

In summary, I'm pleased as punch with the results and may develop a lower charge weight load at another accuracy node with my 158grn plated bullets so that I'll have some great plinking ammo. In addition, I'm thinking of looking at a 180 or 200grn load for medium game or maybe even a go at 400yd steel!!!

Lil'Gun and 357mag in a Rossi '92 style levergun. All I can say is WOW!!

Based upon some unimpressive experience hunting in near zero degree weather at around 10,000 feet, I have ceased using H110/W296 for .44 hunting loads. While it is also a ball powder, I had gone back to 2400 and have found rounds loaded with it to perform better in the cold than H110.

Recently I have been developing loads with Lil' gun and am liking the results.

For general range use and pickup truck duty in northern NM, I have gotten pleasing results using True Blue. Without a lot of bluster, I can achieve useable, consistent and accurate results in both revolver and carbine in either .44 or .45 Colt.

Interesting, standard or magnum primers? Been thinking about Lil'Gun instead of H110 in both the 357 and the 45 Colt. This encourage me to take the plunge.

Make smoke,

Thanks for the report CoSteve! I switched from H110 to Lil'Gun with my Marlin 1894s before I purchased my Rossi's so they have never seen it. Same reason and the same results. Just recently I've started loading some ammo with H110 simply to get rid of the powder as it has been sitting for a decade.

Still scratching my head trying to figure out what I'm going to do with a couple of jugs of H4227 as well.

While it is also a ball powder, I had gone back to 2400 and have found rounds loaded with it to perform better in the cold than H110.

Umm, I think what I've got in the 2400 canister is a tiny flake powder. I've used a heck of a lot of it in .44 Mag over the years.

Still scratching my head trying to figure out what I'm going to do with a couple of jugs of H4227 as well.

I've got a pound or so I've been wondering the same thing about.

Lil'Gun and 357mag in a Rossi '92 style levergun. All I can say is WOW!!

Bought a jug of it a while back. I'll have to give it a whirl.

Although I bought about 8 or 10 lbs of H110 a while back when I caught it on sale.
I figure it will work in either the M1 Carb, the .44 Mag or the .357 at some point.

While it is also a ball powder, I had gone back to 2400 and have found rounds loaded with it to perform better in the cold than H110.

Umm, I think what I've got in the 2400 canister is a tiny flake powder. I've used a heck of a lot of it in .44 Mag over the years.

I think you make a good point. May be a difference between what I think I know and what is known.

It looked like a double base flattened or flake powder to me, like W231 is a flattened spherical powder, for example, and I had presumed Alliant/Hercules produced mostly double based powders, so I went with that. I now tried to do some research on the 2400 powder, but didn't come up with too much. Alliant lists it as a finely cut "extruded powder", which implies to me it may actually be a single based powder, but Alliant does not so state. Much is debated about temperature sensitivity with spherical double based powders vs single based powders, with consensus often being - just use either, doesn't matter. In my field experience of using H110 in .44 mag in temperatures of 0-20 degrees, I can note a drop off in performance. That is what I know.

By switching back to 2400, bullet performance and trajectories seemed consistent to the load development done when the temps were 55 - 70 degrees. When I think on it, the round performs like it is loaded with a single base powder. I use standard LP primers with 2400, whereas I used mag LP primers with H110.

Guess I would be pleased to know what exactly 2400 really is - a flake double base powder or fine cut single base powder. It has been around seemingly forever, but has undergone some reformulation as well.

One feature of 2400 is low density. It gives better case fill in 44 Spl than any powder I've found. There is some difference between the old Hercules 2400 and Alliant 2400, but I've never been able to find out what that is. With that in mind, I'm a bit conservative with old recipes. Not too conservative, because under loading can cause problems.

The SDS on the Alliant web site shows it contains both nitroglycerin and nitrocellulose so double base at least in its current formulation.

Make smoke,

Ohio3Wheels wrote:The SDS on the Alliant web site shows it contains both nitroglycerin and nitrocellulose so double base at least in its current formulation.

Make smoke,

Thanks, hadn't checked that. It had long been my understanding from someplace that 2400 was double base, which is why I referenced it as a ball powder, even tho physically that may not be correct.

I didn't see a description of the granulation.

Make smoke,