Henry's new 41 mag

[triggerpull]

Well, if it makes you feel any better I have lots of Lee factory crimp dies for most of my rifle cartridges--I am a believer in even neck tension from their dies--but as far as the 41 mag goes I usually put a very robust roll crimp right into the cannelure for the bullets I use. What advantage would this have over a regular roll crimp?

[Ranch Dog]

Well, if it makes you feel any better I have lots of Lee factory crimp dies for most of my rifle cartridges--I am a believer in even neck tension from their dies--but as far as the 41 mag goes I usually put a very robust roll crimp right into the cannelure for the bullets I use. What advantage would this have over a regular roll crimp?

Consistent crimp with less force applied to the press and hence; the brass. Pretty much supporting your comments on neck tension but I don't think a robust roll crimp is a good thing. The latter is usually tough to apply or gauge by any measure. With the collet it is easy, especially with the open barrel of the collet die, when the collet mates (the line between the collet segments disappear), the die is providing a maximum uniform crimp.

Not needing to have uniformed case lengths is always mentioned in favor of the FCD but it actually has a limit of the SAAMI spec minus about .015", the depth of the contact lip of the collet. Still that much difference with a seating die set to provide the roll crimp applies a very irregular crimp.

It is all about the initial start pressure of the cartridge being uniform. Any issue in case length or pressure applied to the case while roll crimping will create a deviation in the start pressures. The collet segments coming in perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the case and meeting a positive stop provides the most uniform crimp possible.

[GasGuzzler]

Yeah that.

Actually makes sense.

[triggerpull]

Because my loads in 41 and 44 mag are almost always "up there" on the warm side--and I use my handloads in both revolvers and rifles--I've hand-loaded thousands of rounds and always put a robust roll crimp into the cannelure to make sure the bullet never moves. I've never once had an issue with any bullet movement, even with bullets removed from a lever gun stacked magazine. I guess I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how a taper crimp provides an advantage over a roll crimp when the taper ends up being a roll crimp itself? It's not that I have an issue with the $25 for the die--but I am having a bit of an issue with seeing how this is a significant or even provable improvement.

[Ranch Dog]

I guess I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how a taper crimp provides an advantage over a roll crimp when the taper ends up being a roll crimp itself?

I'm not talking about a "taper" crimp. Lee does not make one. I'm talking about a collet crimp, just like the crimp applied by other Lee rifle cartridge sets. I'll leave you alone from here.

[triggerpull]

I'm not trying to be obstinate--nor trying to be argumentative--just trying to understand how a crimp--regardless of how it is applied--ends up being qualitatively superior given the imperative of getting it to firmly and reliably grasp the cannelure of the bullet. Please forgive my ignorance or seeming lack of comprehension--just trying to improve my understanding. Yes--I meant "factory" crimp--not taper, and yes I do know the difference.

PS--I do notice that redding produces taper, roll and "profile" crimp dies for 41 mag--I'm wondering if their "profile" crimp is a similar collet-type die adapted to heavier roll crimps?

[Archer]

I THINK profile may be a modified crimp between taper and roll.

Just looked them up and they appear to be tighter than spec roll crimping dies that are crimp only (seating required prior to use).
Some reports that they are a taper crimp that transitions to a tight roll crimp.


Lee makes TWO types of Factory Crimp dies.
One is a carbide ring die that is combined with a roll or taper crimping shoulder.
http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/ ... crimp-die/

The other has a collet that is actuated by the shell holder that closes on the case mouth and forms a crimp like you will find on many factory rifle rounds.
http://leeprecision.com/lee-collet-style-crimp-die/
http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/ ... crimp-die/

YOU are confusing the first with what RD is talking about which is the second.
While those Lee Factory COLLET Crimp dies RD is talking about are usually furnished with bottlenecked rifle rounds they can be had for .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum as normal catalog items as well as special ordered for other rounds such as the .41 Magnum.

[GasGuzzler]

That's what I was gonna say. Didn't know how to explain it. Heavy roll with a "regular" die can stress the brass more by overworking it, right?

[triggerpull]

All of the Lee factory crimp dies I have are of the collet type--but they are for bottle-necked cartridges as you say. For revolver cartridges that will also be potentially stacked in a lever gun tube magazine I've always used a healthy roll crimp--but if there are variations in case length, bullet diameter and/or case mouth I can see how a regular roll crimp die can apply the crimp grip pressure unevenly--and I have crushed a case or two in my time. ; ) The first die you mentioned seems to be more related to cartridges that headspace off of the case mouth--like a 9 or 10mm auto-loader--but at the time of applying the crimp it appears it also "post-sizes" the cartridge to get it to conform to chamber dimensions more consistently and reliably. I don't have one--but assume this means it eliminates "bullet bulge" that can happen when seating the bullet. I've usually used an expander type die that bells the case mouth to get the bullet going for auto-loading cartridges that must headspace off of the mouth--but I have run into case bulging depending on the bullet and case used. Anyways, I'm no expert and am always seeking knowledge--I apologize for bugging you guys about this.

Thanks guys--and I WILL order the "RD Custom" die.

[Missionary]

Good morning
Ever so slowly the prices are falling... Last one sold on GB for under $700...
Mike in Peru