R92 Feedway Stoppage ~ Cartridge Guide Replace & Adjust
Posted: 25 Nov 2015 09:29
My R92 44 Mag is an early Braztech manufactured Puma that was imported by Legacy Sports. I haven't given it much use as it has had nagging feed issues and I wanted time to really investigate the issue rather than applying some of the common corrections that focus on the bolt or chamber mouth.
I did not want to send it back to RossiUSA to be corrected because they seem to focus on the later or at least they use to. Many of the rifles I've seen returned, early on in their experience with them, had a "ramp" cut in the lower part of the chamber mouth which was a totally unacceptable fix as far as I was concerned as it creates an unsupported chamber that can adversely affect the case at the time of the shot especially at max chamber pressures. This is what causes the Glock Kabooms. I've personally witnessed two of those.
I've always thought it was an issue with the "feed ramps" cut in the guides and the stoppage could be cured with proper fitting. I think this is one area that Braztech has finally obtained some experience with on the manufacturing side and RossiUSA on the warranty side as I haven't noticed the rifles imaged on these pages with the boogered chamber mouths. I think that Braztech has finally learned what Amedeo knew is that a levergun cannot be totally CNC'd. It requires some hand fitting. Remington has learned the same lesson the hard way over the same period of time.
At the time I purchased the rifle, replacement cartridge guides were not available, the same as most of the parts. That changed early in 2014, and once available, I bought a set for my R92 44 Mag rifle. The guides are cartridge specific. They would not need to be if they weren't "cut" at all but Braztech does make a preliminary cut.
There are two distinct feed issues that I think are directly related and cured by good cartridge guides. The most commonly documented is the case of the cartridge being flipped out of the rifle and there is information on the internet about "shimming" the guides. It is my belief that if they guides were properly fitted in the first place, there would be no need to shim them but more on that later with another rifle I own.
When it comes to the feedway stoppage, there is very little information available. At least I haven't been able to find advice on properly cutting & fitting the guides. With that in mind, I document it here.
The above are my original guides. They are in pretty bad shape from someone hacking away at them with a round file. My guess is was some installer trying to get a "fit" without tearing the rifle down. The additional cuts appear to be moving forward which is a misunderstanding of what is needed. The cut needs to be further back so that the rim end of the cartridge gets up and level earlier.
As an early 444 Marlin guy, I understand this fully. The original rifles have a spring loaded lifter that leveled the cartridge early so that the long cartridge had no feed issues. The carriers were expensive to build so it was eventually dropped in favor of the traditional carrier. You can do some amazing things to the original rifle cartridge overall lengths because of the lifter.
The replacement guides have been installed above and a cartridge pushed forward with the bolt. The nose of the bullet has stopped against the chamber wall but so has the cartridge rim against the underside of the guides. Had the guides been cut further back, the case could have started leveling sooner, prior to the bullet nose making contact with the chamber wall.
Using the pencil marks and the angle the factory cut as a reference, I used side of a rat tail file to complete the cut.
The cuts are complete and matched.
The guides have been reinstalled and the feed is without issue now. I think a set of guides was about $50 but I have bought them for all of my rifles except the 480 Ruger which is not available. Just wanted them available down the road like a number of things. I'm also going to try salvaging the old ones by rebuilding them with JB Weld and then reshaping them.
The next cartridge guide project is my 454 Casull. It flips the cartridges up and out of the rifle. Shimming has not corrected the issue, I think the cartridge guides were trimmed too much in an effort to insure 45 Colt feed. RossiUSA had the right guide in stock but the left guide is still on backorder.
I did not want to send it back to RossiUSA to be corrected because they seem to focus on the later or at least they use to. Many of the rifles I've seen returned, early on in their experience with them, had a "ramp" cut in the lower part of the chamber mouth which was a totally unacceptable fix as far as I was concerned as it creates an unsupported chamber that can adversely affect the case at the time of the shot especially at max chamber pressures. This is what causes the Glock Kabooms. I've personally witnessed two of those.
I've always thought it was an issue with the "feed ramps" cut in the guides and the stoppage could be cured with proper fitting. I think this is one area that Braztech has finally obtained some experience with on the manufacturing side and RossiUSA on the warranty side as I haven't noticed the rifles imaged on these pages with the boogered chamber mouths. I think that Braztech has finally learned what Amedeo knew is that a levergun cannot be totally CNC'd. It requires some hand fitting. Remington has learned the same lesson the hard way over the same period of time.
At the time I purchased the rifle, replacement cartridge guides were not available, the same as most of the parts. That changed early in 2014, and once available, I bought a set for my R92 44 Mag rifle. The guides are cartridge specific. They would not need to be if they weren't "cut" at all but Braztech does make a preliminary cut.
There are two distinct feed issues that I think are directly related and cured by good cartridge guides. The most commonly documented is the case of the cartridge being flipped out of the rifle and there is information on the internet about "shimming" the guides. It is my belief that if they guides were properly fitted in the first place, there would be no need to shim them but more on that later with another rifle I own.
When it comes to the feedway stoppage, there is very little information available. At least I haven't been able to find advice on properly cutting & fitting the guides. With that in mind, I document it here.
The above are my original guides. They are in pretty bad shape from someone hacking away at them with a round file. My guess is was some installer trying to get a "fit" without tearing the rifle down. The additional cuts appear to be moving forward which is a misunderstanding of what is needed. The cut needs to be further back so that the rim end of the cartridge gets up and level earlier.
As an early 444 Marlin guy, I understand this fully. The original rifles have a spring loaded lifter that leveled the cartridge early so that the long cartridge had no feed issues. The carriers were expensive to build so it was eventually dropped in favor of the traditional carrier. You can do some amazing things to the original rifle cartridge overall lengths because of the lifter.
The replacement guides have been installed above and a cartridge pushed forward with the bolt. The nose of the bullet has stopped against the chamber wall but so has the cartridge rim against the underside of the guides. Had the guides been cut further back, the case could have started leveling sooner, prior to the bullet nose making contact with the chamber wall.
Using the pencil marks and the angle the factory cut as a reference, I used side of a rat tail file to complete the cut.
The cuts are complete and matched.
The guides have been reinstalled and the feed is without issue now. I think a set of guides was about $50 but I have bought them for all of my rifles except the 480 Ruger which is not available. Just wanted them available down the road like a number of things. I'm also going to try salvaging the old ones by rebuilding them with JB Weld and then reshaping them.
The next cartridge guide project is my 454 Casull. It flips the cartridges up and out of the rifle. Shimming has not corrected the issue, I think the cartridge guides were trimmed too much in an effort to insure 45 Colt feed. RossiUSA had the right guide in stock but the left guide is still on backorder.