Should I buy this Rossi 44mag

The Rossi Model R92, a lightweight carbine for Cowboy Action, hunting, or plinking! Includes Rossi manufactured Interarms, Navy Arms, and Puma trade names.
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Should I buy this Rossi 44mag

Post by trekker »

Bit of a lengthy post, thanks for anyone who cares to read and advise.

Having a rossi that can run the shorters specials is important for me. Took a stainless 20" 44 mag for a test run instore with some dummy loaded 44 specials with 200 grain gold dots( as its about the widest nose bullet to test how the gun like short fat 44 specials).

Cycled amazingly fast from the magazine and ejected no probs, cowboy action speed.

However... noticed the bullets afterwards were beaten up, pretty serious dents/bevels on side of the noses, one it almost dented the hollowpoint cavity straight! . Didnt occur during loading the mag and when single loading to the chamber entry was nice and smooth. So I am assuming its during the cartridge coming up on the lifter and the short cartridge is hitting something in the chamber at a steep angle?

Im no gunsmith but a friend who is says all hope is not lost, some removal of material 'may'solve the issue...(he is not close enough to examine the gun himself though)

I have also read that hollowpoints are not always good in a rossi 92 so maybe I just accept all Rossis will mangle them the same way?

So I am in two minds as to how to proceed. Do I buy it and attempt to investigate/fix or even accept this issue. Or walk away from it?

What I liked about it is how fast it cycled such short 44 specials as I know finding a 44mag lever that can do that is not always certain, nor is it always possible to have a gunstore let you test beforehand.
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Re: Should I buy this Rossi 44mag

Post by GasGuzzler »

I am not a .429 magnum fan so therefore even less of a Special fan but all of your questions should apply to the other cartridges the R92 is made in.

I don't think the hollow point issue is a Rossi issue, it's a lever action issue. I have no use for jacketed bullets in a lever action so I am not sure what mine do with hollow points but maybe try it with round nose bullets unless you are specifically looking for a lever gun that feeds hollow points perfectly.
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Re: Should I buy this Rossi 44mag

Post by trekker »

Thanks, yes I need or like the hollowpoints for reduced penetration and faster kills shooting game at night over baits. Also have a lot in 44sp loaded at handgun levels and the ability to use them for both would be convenient if nothing else.

I had some HP getting beat up a little in my 357 rossi 92 too but this turned out to be a burr in the magazine tube during loading which was smoothed out by a gunsmith and it was good after that.

I am assuming if HP get mangled on the way into the chamber it may not easily be fixable, and may also be something that affects most lever actions as you say?

I have only owned two levers before, both 357 and am now looking to upgrade to my first 44 for a bit more thump for larger game.

If anyone else has tried HP in their pistol calibre carbines would be interested to hear. Maybe my expectations are too high and this damage is to be expected.
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Re: Should I buy this Rossi 44mag

Post by dlidster »

trekker wrote: . . . Also have a lot in 44sp loaded at handgun levels . . .
Since you're a handloader I don't see a problem. If you were to load the same bullet into a 44 sp and a 44 mag case, making certain the COAL was the same 1.6" (approx.), they would feed exactly the same. It's the COAL that matters; the case is irrelevant.

I feed my 44 mag 92 nothing but 44 mag (case) loads. But, for my .357 92 I have buckets of .38 special brass that I load to 1.6" (approx.). These feed flawlessly; I almost never use .357 brass.

FWIW, I've never used jacketed bullets of any kind in either of these rifles. I shoot only cast bullets and have come to love the truncated cone profile.
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Re: Should I buy this Rossi 44mag

Post by trekker »

I like the powder savings of 44 special, wouldnt be much point using the brass if I loaded it to same COAL as 44 mag. Also as I said its already loaded. As to powder savings I am in Australia. Our only powder manufacturer has ceased production of pistol powders perhaps indefinetly( they also supply 7-8 powders Hodgon rebrands so if you like universal, clays or international, grab it now because you wont see it again) . Hodgon imports for you guys but wont export to us anymore. Neither will winchester and the last US company to still supply us Alliant looks like its pulled the pin on us too.

Anyway, I didnt really want to get into that or alternatives, im pretty well setup for what I do. Its an opinion on functioning and or gunsmithing I was hoping for regards the rossi 1892 and HP.'
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Re: Should I buy this Rossi 44mag

Post by Archer »

I think you may be misunderstanding the previous suggestion.

IF you load the same powder charge and the same bullet and the same primer into:
a. .44 SP cases
and/or
b. .44 Magnum cases

with the SAME COL in both loads, a single COL used for BOTH cases. (Pick one length probably .44 SP compatible.)

THEN they'll feed the same, and have an almost identical performance in a given gun. So if your chosen length doesn't feed well, you could change it to something that works better.

IF you wanted .44 SP +P (near mag levels) you could potentially trim the .44 Mag cases to SP length.

----
My two cents,

I load and use jacketed bullets for heavy loads. You should get a net gain of velocity out of the rifle and a gain in accuracy if you are using iron sights vs. a handgun.

Gold Dots are one of the accepted cutting edge technology bullets being more or less a soft core with a thin bonded jacket that in theory allows them to be pushed at high handgun velocities. IF you add several hundred FPS out of the rifle then you may be pushing the bullets beyond their best performance envelope. They may expand rapidly and might not penetrate as well as desired.

Same goes for most handgun bullet designs. I tend to like the flat nosed jacketed in the carbines but the old tech isn't immune to being driven too fast and the jacket can separate.

I do tend to prefer a magnum load for the rifles. A bit more OOMPH for the longer barrel.
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Re: Should I buy this Rossi 44mag

Post by trekker »

Archer wrote:I think you may be misunderstanding the previous suggestion.

IF you load the same powder charge and the same bullet and the same primer into:
a. .44 SP cases
and/or
b. .44 Magnum cases

with the SAME COL in both loads, a single COL used for BOTH cases. (Pick one length probably .44 SP compatible.)
True but you can always get a 44 special shorter than a 44 mag just like you can get a 44 russian shorter again. The russian wont feed but makes a nice single shot round, tiny powder charge, low noise like a 45acp in a rifle barrel.
THEN they'll feed the same, and have an almost identical performance in a given gun. So if your chosen length doesn't feed well, you could change it to something that works better.
Not after ''almost identical'' performance or adjusting loads yet. The thread was identifying where the HP are hanging up inside the gun. This wasnt a solve my reloading issues question, its guess my guns internal mechanics problem. Probably not possible to do on a forum but I figured if anyone had the same problem I might have a start point.
IF you wanted .44 SP +P (near mag levels) you could potentially trim the .44 Mag cases to SP length.
Actually 44 special starline brass is plenty strong enough for +P or even lower magnum loads as is 38 special. Starline has outlined this in the past.
My two cents,

I load and use jacketed bullets for heavy loads. You should get a net gain of velocity out of the rifle and a gain in accuracy if you are using iron sights vs. a handgun.
Gold Dots are one of the accepted cutting edge technology bullets being more or less a soft core with a thin bonded jacket that in theory allows them to be pushed at high handgun velocities.
I like gold dots, they comes in a couple of versions. Magnum jackets and the SB load, being for ''short barrel'' revolvers as seen with the 135 grain gold dot for 38 special and the 200 grain gold dot for the 44 mag.

Both are the lowest velocity expanding HP in either calibre( with the possible exception of the 125 golden sabre in the 38) These are well beloved by subsonic hunters of small/medium game as few other bullets expands as well under 1000fps.

The regular gold dots EG 125 and 158 in 357 and 210, 270 etc in 44 are magnum jacket bullets yes.
IF you add several hundred FPS out of the rifle then you may be pushing the bullets beyond their best performance envelope. They may expand rapidly and might not penetrate as well as desired.
the short barrel gold dots usually start expansion at about 875fps for the 357 cal and as low as 780fps for the 44 special. They tend to hold together and increase penetration until about 1100fps after which they start to shed weight, starting with the jacket, though the core still penetrates well. At 1200-1300fps they turn into bombs and fragment and penetration stops. So not a magnum bullet no, but I only push them to 1050fps anyway.
Same goes for most handgun bullet designs. I tend to like the flat nosed jacketed in the carbines but the old tech isn't immune to being driven too fast and the jacket can separate.I do tend to prefer a magnum load for the rifles. A bit more OOMPH for the longer barrel.

I use magnum loads for large hogs, horses and donkeys( feral game here). The lighter slow stuff is for small hogs and other game shot at 40m under red light and baits at night. Usually where nearby properties require a sound signature no worse than a 22mag.

Again this was just an opinions thread on what might be happening internally to my rossi or if anyone has had the same thing. Usually you are adjusting COAL to get it to feed. This time it feeds very well, something is just banging the HP on one side. Its a tough situation, do I buy the gun and figure it out and then play about with COAL etc or do I try another,
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Re: Should I buy this Rossi 44mag

Post by GasGuzzler »

RNFP cast with a large meplat is just as if not a more effective killer than a hollow point AND they feed in lever guns just fine. They can be pushed just as fast as jacketed but you don't need that anyway if you're using .44 Special. The simple solution is build the proper ammo for the gun, not adapt the gun to shoot handgun ammo...unless you'd like to spend the extra time and money.
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Re: Should I buy this Rossi 44mag

Post by trekker »

I personally like HP for select tasks aka dropping smaller things faster. And with less chance of shooting what is behind them. Usually takes the form of when the animal is being held or what we call bailed( cornered) by dogs( aka my dogs) or where a large mob is feeding over bait. No argument cast doesnt kill well, but Im happy with the results from HP.
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Re: Should I buy this Rossi 44mag

Post by runfiverun »

I love RNFP bullets they kill deer no problem too.

anyway if your dinging up case mouths the ejector spring is too strong. [my 44-40 is bad about this and I could easily fix it but.... shrug]
just roll a pair of needle nose pliers around the case mouth before dumping them in the hopper.
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