GOT IT.. AT LAST..!!

The Rossi Model R92, a lightweight carbine for Cowboy Action, hunting, or plinking! Includes Rossi manufactured Interarms, Navy Arms, and Puma trade names.
Archer
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Re: GOT IT.. AT LAST..!!

Post by Archer »

I seem to recall I've seen 1911s with an intercept shelf close to the firing pin that is NOT a half cock.
Designed as you mention to catch the hammer if it slips before it hits the firing pin but if you press the trigger it drops the hammer the remaining mm or two since it doesn't have enough force to set anything off at that point, unlikely to even pop the firing pin far enough to kiss the primer.

The half cock notch traps the sear nose and prevents the trigger press from dropping it further.

I think I've even seen examples that had both a half cock AND an intercept shelf
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Re: GOT IT.. AT LAST..!!

Post by Archer »

The butterfly safety is in fact the operational or field safety on the 92 for use when the gun is to be put into action quickly.

The hammer lock isn't a safety exactly it is a storage lock for when the gun is going to be unattended for a length of time. It is essentially an alternative to a cable lock or trigger lock. Blame the 'safe storage' crowd of antis and people who refuse to teach their kids how to behave.
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Re: GOT IT.. AT LAST..!!

Post by Reese-Mo »

Archer wrote:I seem to recall I've seen 1911s with an intercept shelf close to the firing pin that is NOT a half cock.
Designed as you mention to catch the hammer if it slips before it hits the firing pin but if you press the trigger it drops the hammer the remaining mm or two since it doesn't have enough force to set anything off at that point, unlikely to even pop the firing pin far enough to kiss the primer.
As designed, the Colt Government Model has a hooked half cock, or as we note, a hammer catch notch. From that notch, the trigger cannot be pulled.

But, as you noted, some can indeed have the trigger pulled, and the hammer barely moves, not being able to impart any meaningful force to the rebounding firing pin. Those are "Series 80" fire control groups, designed by Colt, copied by a few other makes. Folks call the previous, and as designed, fire control group as the Series 70, but it should more rightfully just be called "original".
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Re: GOT IT.. AT LAST..!!

Post by HarryAlonzo »

Agree with Archer that the hammer lock is a storage/transport lock, not a safety.

I don’t know nuthin’ ‘bout no 1911s. Half cock on a lever prevents discharge upon dropping. It’s my normal field carry state. Because levers are laborious to unload, half cock is also the proper state for fence climbing. I will also half cock prior to topping off a magazine, or prior to handing a loaded firearm to another shooter.
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Re: GOT IT.. AT LAST..!!

Post by Archer »

Warning this post is 1911ish content...
Funny, I never really considered the intercept shelf as part of the series 80 fire control mods.

Might be because I never really sat down and made a good study of a true Colt Series 80.
Then again as you mention there's been a lot of changes in the design over the years and Colt's tried a LOT of different things many of which turned out to be dead ends and blind alleys.
I still think I've seen at least a few 1911s that had both the intercept notch and the half cock.

I THINK I ran into the 'intercept shelf' on Springfield 1911s first and Springfield NEVER AFAIK adopted any of the firing pin block systems.

Kimber and maybe Smith & Wesson adopted the Schwartz firing pin block system that activates off of the grip safety. Colt had supposedly tried that back in the early 1900s and decided it wasn't reliable enough because the tiny amount of grip safety movement was difficult to ensure that the system worked correctly in the face of tolerance stack up.

Para Ord adopted the Series firing pin block system and I think they also adopted the intercept shelf.
(THEN they came out with the LDA (Light Double Action) trigger which didn't seem to go anywhere and which might not have been a double action either.)

To me the 'series 80' means the trigger actuated firing pin block.
'Series 70' means check for a stupid 'finger' collet barrel bushing. (Not to be very surprised if it was replaced with a solid bushing.) '
'A1" means somebody put a trigger in it that was too short, put a silly humped mainspring housing on it and tried to put more robust sights on it. (I ignore the frame scallops as inconsequential.)
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Re: GOT IT.. AT LAST..!!

Post by Reese-Mo »

Ya know how folks tend to repress bad memories? Then you hadda bring up the collet bushing.... I'm gonna have nightmares again.....

Another thing is the mix/match of parts after things leave the mothership.

Still....its got that "safety" notch.
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Re: GOT IT.. AT LAST..!!

Post by Ohio3Wheels »

I think the Tarus "safety" is/was intended as a storage safety as opposed to a field safety as it takes a tool to set or un set it. Both my '92s still have the bolt safety and will as long as I own them. Same with the cross bolts on 2 of my Marlins. I wont remove them from the Marlins but a simple "O" ring keeps them from accidently slipping to safe.

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Re: GOT IT.. AT LAST..!!

Post by ManxTom »

I didn't get the little 'tool' for the safety on my Rossi. I'm not bothered as I wouldn't use it anyway. For me it's a totally redundant feature - there's no-one in the house except my wife and myself and, if it's not with me, in use at the range, then it's locked away.
Love this gun, it's so much fun. But 'troubles' are never far away..!! So far I have tried to buy a leather wrap for my R92 from seven US outlets - D4 Guns, Hellhound Leather, 5 Star Armour, Diamond D etc,. either they wont ship to Great Britain or their payment/shipping menu refused to recognise my post code ( what you call the zip code). This is getting to be soooo frustrating...!!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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