Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

[aether_Tech]

Check out the scout scope sticky. There’s more to life than Vortex. I’m not a fan of high magnification scout scopes.

That thread is.... rather old and dated.

[HarryAlonzo]

Since you enjoyed that one so much, I’m forwarding this similarly dated string:

https://www.rossi-rifleman.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5006

You have lots of options, if you’re inclined to search. If I were scout scoping a 92 today, I’d go for Burris, or hunt for an old Leupold M8.

[bczrx]

I am in a similar boat, but got a little help from a Rossi fan who is living in Brazil.

It would help if you could list at least the letter code and the first 3 digits of the serial number- like mine [well, soon to be] is K022xxx. Also it would be good to mention the caliber, although the letter code should designate that [K = .357/.38 for example].

First- Interarms got the distribution rights to Rossi for the US market in 1975, and Interarms' owner died in 1999- at which time the company was liquidated. This is something that I see you figured out by page 3 of the thread.



However, with a LOT of luck I found a guy in Brazil that was able to identify some key differences for my model 92, and some of it may be useful for you.

It seems that around 1981 Rossi began to stamp the serial number [by machine, no longer by hand] on the right side of the receiver. Before that it was under the receiver.

From the picture you provided, it seems the serial number is on the side- not below: correct?

Ok- probably 1981-1999.

With your serial number we might be able to narrow this more.



Something else I picked up in my research is that "the older interarms Rossi imports used a .400" rear sight dovetail." This would be 10.16mm wide.
Rossi rear sight reference- sassnet

I hope this helps.

[Archer]

With regard to Vortex.
Yes they are popular, largely because of the price and aggressive marketing w/ vendor incentives.
Do they approach their own hype? sort of, maybe. Probably as well as the other Chinese glass companies and they stand behind their glass better than many.

I'll second Burris as generally decent and I have a few Leupolds.

[GasGuzzler]

It would help if you could list at least the letter code and the first 3 digits of the serial number

Mine is K023XXXX .357. If you have info based on serial numbers we probably need a new topic since no one has ever been able to link any data thus far.

[bczrx]

It would help if you could list at least the letter code and the first 3 digits of the serial number

Mine is K023XXXX .357. If you have info based on serial numbers we probably need a new topic since no one has ever been able to link any data thus far.

First, is your serial number accurate? Mine has only 6 digits- not 7- after the K.

If you added an extra X by accident, it was probably made within 3-4 months of mine: around Oct/Nov 1980. If you actually have a 7 digit serial number, well- read on and see the confusion I have.


I don't really have data on numbers worthy of an entire separate post. I just have a smidge of info that pertains to MY Rossi [and yours]. IF someone deems this amount of info, and pattern, worthy of a separate post- please, by all means, lift the data and develop it!


The following is according to my source in Brazil, who pulled it from his collection of data- including an old Forensics Ballistics course, Brazilian Gun magazines, and other documents we all squirrel away over the years. I am pretty sure he is a Brazilian LEO, but I am not sure.


Here are two of his posts regarding my serial number [K0225xx] and the date of the rifle:

[tab=30][tab=30]"Earlier Rossi 92 carbines (the model codes was different for Brazilian market) the serial number was in front of the lever/trigger guard. In the beginning of 80´s, serial number changed to the right side of receiver."

and

[tab=30][tab=30]"Your Rossi 92 (Here in Brazil, Puma Model 67) was made before January, 1981. In this month the unit K 024276 was made. From this serial number, it becames to be stamped by hydraulic press, with a smaller font. Before this, the serial number was manually stamped with punches and hammer.

[tab=30][tab=30]The first Model 67 made was made in the end of December, 1976 (serial number K 00001), and released in January, 1977. These data tell us that are produced about 6000 units per year of Rossi 92/Puma 67 between 1977-1980. A quick calculation put your gun between July and August, 1980.

[tab=30][tab=30]So, your 92 has the serial number under the receiver in front of the lever. Font size is 2,5mm in height and 1,5mm in width."

Now, 6000 units per year in the late 70s is an approximation, and boils down to an average of 500 per month. And, I have no data to use to create an average of units per year after 1981.

It is possible Rossi kept a steady average production. It is also possible Rossi increased/decreased units per year. And, according to a few post, Rossi ramped up production in the 90s to meet US demand.


Lever-Guy on this forum had this to add in 2017, but this survey was based on dates purchased- not dates made:

"The K pre-fix began in 1976.

K002810 = 1978 or 79'

K020xxx = 1980 + or - 1

K043xxx = 1986

K067xxx = 1991"

Another said:
"I have the same rifle with serial #KO792XX ,IIRC I purchased it (new)in 1995 /96" He could be misremembering.
As another indicated a K088xxx from something around 1991-92 also.
And I have seen pics of one dated K126737 for sale- it was Interarms also- and probably late 1990s.


On another thread, there was discussion about the Puma medallion, and how that was probably a sign of a 1980s Interarms rifle- but it could be a late transitional in the early 1990s, and at least one .357 Model 92 with a higher serial number than yours was bought without it. May be related to option/package of 92, and running concurrently.


This is all I've found so far.




I really can't help thinking your serial number has an extraneous X in it. It would be easy enough to repeat one too many x characters- I do it often enough when changing passwords!

If it IS accurate, it was produced 163,000 rifles AFTER 1990, and would be about 2x as high of a serial number as the highest I've seen.

What also throws a lot of this into dispute is that Rossi merged into BrazTech in 1997, and Braztech got distribution rights to some of Rossi's line up. Some say all of it, while others point out that LSI picked up from Interarms and continued importing Rossi rifles until around 2007, I think.

So, did Rossi Revolvers stop being imported by Interarms around 1996 but Rossi Rifles were still imported until 1999?

I DO NOT know.

Yet, knowing is needed to peg dates: as otherwise the last Interarms-marked Rossi rifles would have to be 1997, instead of 1999/2000.

[GasGuzzler]

Mine has no Puma medallion. The few people I have talked to that bought theirs new in the 1980's have confirmed Rossi rifles were not built nor imported in relative serial order.

[Archer]

Rossi rifles could easily be built in serial number order.
Such only makes sense.

What I suspect was different however is that serial number blocks could be reserved to individual contracts as those contracts were executed. It is also quite likely that individual contracts could specify unique blocks. For example 'Rossi' rifles might have one set of blocks while rifles that were be produced with 'Navy Arms' or 'Chippewa' or 'Puma' labels as the manufacturer might have different serial orders outside of the Rossi sequences or in some cases different 'manufacturers' might have duplicate sequences producing the same rifles. Thus a Rossi built Navy Arms rifle serial number sequence might have no relation to the production dates for a Rossi labeled serial number sequence.

I don't know if Rossi did that or not but I have seen that recently on AR receiver serial sequences with custom imprints and I am aware that for WWI Mosin Nagants were produced by Remington and by Winchester with independent serial number strings starting at 1 from both manufacturers. Arms produced for the U.S. military on the other hand often tended to award contract blocks for the same model to different manufacturers with reserved non-duplicate serial numbers regardless of the manufacturer. In some cases where numbers overlapped by accident during WWII production one set of duplicate serials was often appended with a star or something to make them unique.

As I've mentioned before, It is also possible that Rossi didn't manage their inventory in a First In First Out (FIFO) manner. Smith & Wesson was guilty of this for at least half a century or more. Stuff was pushed into the vault and often removed in reverse order. Hidden or forgotten series of models or serial chunks were 'found' from time to time and offered as New Old Stock or the like. Such an inventory mismanagement system might have articles manufactured in one year and then shipped in a different decade. Given that Rossi in the U.S. also was shipped, received, warehoused and then sold again it is possible something similar could happen at the importer/warehouse and/or any distributors who bought large lots and then shipped them out in penny packets to individual retail outlets.

Tracing serial number dates of production via what shows up on the retail market is very much guess work and inaccurate frustration. That's particularly true when it's a matter of decades of reconstructive effort.