Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

The Rossi Model R92, a lightweight carbine for Cowboy Action, hunting, or plinking! Includes Rossi manufactured Interarms, Navy Arms, and Puma trade names.
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aether_Tech
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Re: Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

Post by aether_Tech »

Reese-Mo wrote:Not a very narrow window. Put another way, you could easily pass Cass Elliot's tush thru that window and not disturb the dust! Interarms imported Rossi for quite a spell....
Well, it narrows it down ... a little bit....

But, to more annoying issues.


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Is it 10mm? Is it some weird Rossi only thing? It's not 3/8 as far as I can tell (since a normal 3/8 just slides through.) The Skinner sight that supposedly works with the old 10mm Rossi dovetails definitely didn't work, totally different angle. Even measuring this thing got me like 9.6mm or something weird....


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Re: Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

Post by Archer »

...

Skinner's page says most Rossi dovetails are usually 3/8ths +.015", probably means current production?
http://www.skinnersights.com/rossi_firearms_23.html

https://stevesgunz.com/sight-package/
You might try e-mailing here: https://store.stevesgunz.com/
I seem to recall Steves used to offer an 'old' sight set vs a new sight set.

You might also contact Marbles: (or maybe better Brownells as a Marbles vendor)
http://www.marblearms.com/home.html

Of potential interest:
http://www.texas-mac.com/Measuring_Dove ... sions.html
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aether_Tech
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Re: Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

Post by aether_Tech »

Archer wrote:...

Skinner's page says most Rossi dovetails are usually 3/8ths +.015", probably means current production?
http://www.skinnersights.com/rossi_firearms_23.html

https://stevesgunz.com/sight-package/
You might try e-mailing here: https://store.stevesgunz.com/
I seem to recall Steves used to offer an 'old' sight set vs a new sight set.

You might also contact Marbles: (or maybe better Brownells as a Marbles vendor)
http://www.marblearms.com/home.html

Of potential interest:
http://www.texas-mac.com/Measuring_Dove ... sions.html
Skinner had a product specifically for the older larger dovetail, but that did not work. I'm asking for a return right now.

I did not see that one Steve's page, but it's also not available on his store, and I already talked with him about it and he said no product for that at the moment. I also asked him if I could send him the dovetail sight I had , to be modified, or just have the dimensions copied into a current product stock, and he declined.

Brownells does not carry anything, I checked, and called them. (or nothing in stock at least.)

I'll try to throw up some 'accurate' measurements of the stock dovetail male, and female. Maybe when I find a machinist for my other project, I can try and get them to make me a dovetail with some screw holes for a short length picatinny rail or RMR mount or something...
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Re: Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

Post by Reese-Mo »

aether_Tech wrote: Is it 10mm? Is it some weird Rossi only thing? It's not 3/8 as far as I can tell (since a normal 3/8 just slides through.) The Skinner sight that supposedly works with the old 10mm Rossi dovetails definitely didn't work, totally different angle. Even measuring this thing got me like 9.6mm or something weird....
First, I'm mildly amused you got the Cass Elliot quip. I sometimes think only folks my (very old) age get 'em.

Next - It is very common for dovetails to be fitted, or rather, the sights to be fitted to dovetails. This holds true for "standard" .375" dovetails which are usually cut a bit small, more like .268"-.270"-ish. (<== my hands on shop experience from the 70's thru 90's). You have to look at things a bit, but the usual best way to fit those is to take material off the bottom of the sight until it fits the dovetail. You can do that, and its easy, if _AND ONLY IF_, the part of the sight above the barrel will still clear. A leaf sight, like a Marble's or such, may or may not, but usually they do. I really can't remember one specifically that didn't but... I do recall putting a sight or two on the Bridgeport and re-cutting the dovetail, so it must have happened a few time.

How about when the dovetail is too big? Then things get "creative". If its just a tiny bit big, then you can push up metal on the bottom of the sight with a sharp punch until the fit is tight, clean everything really well, and red Locktite the sight in place. That works, and I've got a few in my own "arsenal" that are fit that way and never give a lick of trouble. If they're more than just a little loose, say.. with a .005"-.010" gap between the bottom of the sight and top of the dovetail's flat, then a grub screw put into the sight will hold it in place. One will do, but some 'smiths will use two - left 'n right. That depends on the situation, barrel diameter, sight, etc etc etc.

What if the dovetail is really, really big, some oddball item. Then you have to put on the ol' thinking cap. Consider the gun, its intrinsic value... if its something that should stay original, then search your butt off for the right sight. If its just a shooter, there's a variety of ways to do things. If there's enough barrel material, You can drill/tap for a base with a dovetail, and raise up the front sight to match. You can silver solder, or weld material to a sight's dovetail and re-cut the edge. If you think there's enough "side material" to hold the sight, you can shim it and use a grub screw - but that's dicey. Did that on .22's but, that's all.

The lever gun will look funny with a raised up rear sight on a base, and then you create a new problem with the front sight. From your situation, I'd take a real, real close look at the Skinner you have, which is too big, and see if the bottom can be shaved so the dovetail fits. DO NOT shave the sides, unless you are CERTAIN that there will be too little clearance for the horizontal parts of the sight.

Avoid shade tree methods of - altering the barrel by hammering the upper edges of the dovetail to try to tighten things, welding, raising up metal on the bottom of the dovetail, etc etc. Those are the mark of a true wearer of the "Bubba 'Smith" name tag.
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Re: Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

Post by Reese-Mo »

Forgot to add....

The easy, but somewhat time consuming (and harder to fubar) method of shaving the bottom of a sight is to simply run it across some wet/dry sandpaper, about 120 grit is good. The trick is - keep holding the sight in your hand differently for a dozen strokes on the paper. That is, front to back, then left to right, then back to front, then right to left. Keep your hand moving in the same direction, and rotate the sight. Any imperfection in the amount of force used by your hand (resulting in an uneven bottom) will be mitigated that way.
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Re: Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

Post by aether_Tech »

I don't think filing down the Skinner sight is the answer.

Image 1: Rossi sight:

Image 2: Skinner Sight and Rossi barrel dovetail:

Image 3: Skinner sight and interference to barrel:

Image 4: Rossi and Skinner sight comparison:


The Skinner sight does not fit, it is both to wide, and has completely different angles. AND the barrel angled interferes with the fit.
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Re: Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

Post by Reese-Mo »

That is one strange lookin' item there.

So what's wrong with the Rossi sight?

In such a case... if you really gotta have another sight, what I would have done is recut the original dovetail, fit a blank, and shape to fit the existing barrel contour. Then cut a new dovetail .090 deep (or more like .085 deep) by .375 (or more like .370ish), and the new dovetail would be just a bit further forward than the old one with the blank, so that the new sight sort of "hid" the patch job. The patch job, btw, can be made pretty darn near invisible if done right, but the refinish is a whole lot more money. For a used Rossi, hiding the patch, and some Oxpho blue would probably be where the customer would want to go.

Jeeze, at first I thought someone pre-Bubba'd the dovetail, then I saw the angle of the sight. Totally strange on a rifle. Kahr had some strange dovetails for a while, but maybe 10 years back or so, got to the standard sizes/angles.
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aether_Tech
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Re: Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

Post by aether_Tech »

Reese-Mo wrote:That is one strange lookin' item there.

So what's wrong with the Rossi sight?

In such a case... if you really gotta have another sight, what I would have done is recut the original dovetail, fit a blank, and shape to fit the existing barrel contour. Then cut a new dovetail .090 deep (or more like .085 deep) by .375 (or more like .370ish), and the new dovetail would be just a bit further forward than the old one with the blank, so that the new sight sort of "hid" the patch job. The patch job, btw, can be made pretty darn near invisible if done right, but the refinish is a whole lot more money. For a used Rossi, hiding the patch, and some Oxpho blue would probably be where the customer would want to go.

Jeeze, at first I thought someone pre-Bubba'd the dovetail, then I saw the angle of the sight. Totally strange on a rifle. Kahr had some strange dovetails for a while, but maybe 10 years back or so, got to the standard sizes/angles.

Well, the sight sucks, and I hate adjusting the elevation murdering my fingers, or the windage ...or, right, that's not adjustable :(
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Re: Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

Post by mr surveyor »

I gotta ask ..... windage isn't adjustable?


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Re: Pre-1995 Rossi Puma 92 Carbine Questions

Post by aether_Tech »

mr surveyor wrote:I gotta ask ..... windage isn't adjustable?


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