Jacketed bullet velocity
Re: Jacketed bullet velocity
SAAMI's spec for a 'standard' pressure .45 Colt load is 14,000psi and their spec for .45 Colt Ruger Only is 25,000CUP. Rossi '92s use Winchester's '92 action design that is far and away strong enough to handle SAAMI spec 35,000psi .357mag and 36,000psi .44mag loads so a SAAMI spec 25,000CUP .45 Colt Ruger Only load is well within the action's ability to absorb the pressure.
A bit of history is in order. Winchester found that their 1876 design with it's heritage toggle link design wasn't strong enough to support the higher bolt thrust and pressures of the larger black powder cartridges being developed such as the 45-70. So, Winchester and Browning developed the 1886 rifle design specifically to handle larger, higher pressure rds like the 45-70 with it's SAAMI Spec of 28,000psi.
The '86's action is so strong that Winchester found that all they needed to do to chamber it for the newer, higher pressure smokeless power .33 WCF caliber was to replace the barrel with a stronger nickel steel one. While the '92's action is a scaled down version of the '86's action to handle smaller calibers, material properties don't scale down so the '92's action design is very, very strong.
As the owner of 2 Rossis in .357mags since 2009, I can tell you their actions remain tight and safe after many thousands of rds of full power loads. Also, as the owner of 2 Uberti .45 Colts with the older Winchester toggle link design, I only shoot standard pressure, 14,000psi or below loads in them as their actions are just not as strong.
A bit of history is in order. Winchester found that their 1876 design with it's heritage toggle link design wasn't strong enough to support the higher bolt thrust and pressures of the larger black powder cartridges being developed such as the 45-70. So, Winchester and Browning developed the 1886 rifle design specifically to handle larger, higher pressure rds like the 45-70 with it's SAAMI Spec of 28,000psi.
The '86's action is so strong that Winchester found that all they needed to do to chamber it for the newer, higher pressure smokeless power .33 WCF caliber was to replace the barrel with a stronger nickel steel one. While the '92's action is a scaled down version of the '86's action to handle smaller calibers, material properties don't scale down so the '92's action design is very, very strong.
As the owner of 2 Rossis in .357mags since 2009, I can tell you their actions remain tight and safe after many thousands of rds of full power loads. Also, as the owner of 2 Uberti .45 Colts with the older Winchester toggle link design, I only shoot standard pressure, 14,000psi or below loads in them as their actions are just not as strong.
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Re: Jacketed bullet velocity
Very informative post Steve. I researched the Rossi 92 and knew it was the rifle for short range deer hunting. And since I already reload the 45 Colt I selected it as the cartridge. I shoot deer of my back porch to keep their numbers in check. I put meat in my freezer and donate one to the Lighthouse Children's Home.
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Re: Jacketed bullet velocity
Oh I forgot to mention one more reason I selected the Rossi 92
John Wayne liked it
John Wayne liked it
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Re: Jacketed bullet velocity
Of interest perhaps Winchester makes the Japanese version of the toggle lock 1873 in .357 Magnum and as far as I know puts no limitations on the ammunition for use in the weapon. They don't put the gun out in .44 Mag. They put the 92s out in both .357 and .44 Mag.
Winchester at one time made a .44-40 load for use in 1892 actions only. Probably before the advent of ambulance chasing lawyers.
I went with the .44 Mag because I didn't want to have to keep track of what ammo is safe for different guns when the ammo was otherwise indistinguishable from each other potentially being identically marked and visually the same. I have in the past looked into coloring or marking brass for identification but it just wasn't worth the hassle to me. I like the safety factor of being able to put any commercial round marked .44 Mag or any of my reloads in .44 Mag in any of my six .44 Mag guns or any other .44 Mag in good repair without having to be concerned that it might damage one of them or someone shooting it.
I do 'push' .45-70 a mite. Both of the .45-70s I own are well capable of handling loads beyond the anemic Trapdoor levels. I tend to stick to 'mid level' loads as I just don't feel the need to push .444 Marlin+ levels of pressure using the assumption that since the .444 Marlin with bit thicker brass and a little bit more barrel steel handles it the thinner .45-70 brass and somewhat thinner barrel of the .45-70 is automatically going to be good for it.
Winchester at one time made a .44-40 load for use in 1892 actions only. Probably before the advent of ambulance chasing lawyers.
I went with the .44 Mag because I didn't want to have to keep track of what ammo is safe for different guns when the ammo was otherwise indistinguishable from each other potentially being identically marked and visually the same. I have in the past looked into coloring or marking brass for identification but it just wasn't worth the hassle to me. I like the safety factor of being able to put any commercial round marked .44 Mag or any of my reloads in .44 Mag in any of my six .44 Mag guns or any other .44 Mag in good repair without having to be concerned that it might damage one of them or someone shooting it.
I do 'push' .45-70 a mite. Both of the .45-70s I own are well capable of handling loads beyond the anemic Trapdoor levels. I tend to stick to 'mid level' loads as I just don't feel the need to push .444 Marlin+ levels of pressure using the assumption that since the .444 Marlin with bit thicker brass and a little bit more barrel steel handles it the thinner .45-70 brass and somewhat thinner barrel of the .45-70 is automatically going to be good for it.
Last edited by Archer on 15 Aug 2020 05:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jacketed bullet velocity
Rossi made '92s in .454 and .480 with the same receiver (adding a threaded mag tube).
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Re: Jacketed bullet velocity
Yep, they did and AFAIK the mag tube was the only change they made but I haven't looked at them in detail. I wouldn't mind having one of the .454s or .480s but I really don't need yet another caliber to load either.GasGuzzler wrote:Rossi made '92s in .454 and .480 with the same receiver (adding a threaded mag tube).
We've seen a few of the standard .44/45 guns firing heavy loads have some issues with the mag tubes unseating themselves. About half the reports I've seen of that sort of thing involved problems with how the front screw in the mag tube seated into the barrel. I don't recall seeing the same sort of thing with the .357 guns.
And you don't have to worry about getting a .454 or 480 into a .45 Colt SA revolver, a Schofield style revolver or a 1873 etc. either.
I think Winchester made the 1886 in a 50-110. My 1886 has a threaded mag tube on it. I'm not sure if that's simply because of the takedown mechanism or if it was a standard 1886 thing for the mag tubes.
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Re: Jacketed bullet velocity
Fla Trooper 265 wrote:Thanks Ranch Dog
I've killed a lot of critters with my R92 45 Colt, but all with hard cast bullets. My target pressure with the R92 45 Colt has been 35.0K ~ 36.0K PSI. Initially, I used QuickLoad to come up with my loads and my RSI Pressure Trace equipment to verify the shot pressures. After mounting the scout base, I could no longer use the strain gage on the barrel.
The why of my pressure choice is that is very little gain from going higher. A little bit of powder goes a long way to generating a lot of pressure with little gain in performance. My choice is also idea for a gas checked hard cast bullet.
Michael
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Re: Jacketed bullet velocity
Ranch Dog I started off shooting cast bullets in my 92 and they shot fine un-till I leaded the barrel. It wasnt that big of a deal to clean the lead out but I would like to avoid the hassle, so I switched to jacketed. Would fireing a couple rounds of jacketed bullets after a session of cast rounds keep the barrel clean?
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Re: Jacketed bullet velocity
You would need to clean the lead out before switching to jacketed bullets. Honestly, I don't know how many years its been since I cleaned 45 Colt's barrel. It does need it.Fla Trooper 265 wrote:Ranch Dog I started off shooting cast bullets in my 92 and they shot fine un-till I leaded the barrel. It wasnt that big of a deal to clean the lead out but I would like to avoid the hassle, so I switched to jacketed. Would fireing a couple rounds of jacketed bullets after a session of cast rounds keep the barrel clean?
Michael