Small handguns

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Re: Small handguns

Postby Archer » 18 Feb 2020 19

To be honest I wasn't aware they had tried to make a poly frame version. I was actually a little disappointed that the P07 was poly.

When they first came out with the RAMI there were quite a few complaints. As I recall CZ stepped up and worked the problems out rather rapidly but there were quite a few folks who got them when they weren't quite right. I had a friend in Seattle who had some issues but I can't recall what they were at present.

Looking at the forums for problems it appears that there were some feeding issues.
It seems these issues broke down into 3 categories:
1) Magazine springs needed to be replaced. Word is the extended 14 round mag was often worse.
2) recoil spring needed to be replaced
3) Mention was made that CZ chamber throats were tight/short and ammo that extended too far into the throat could give problems. In particular Winchester White Box and 147 grain loads were mentioned as a problem. The chamber lead problems could manifest as failure to chamber, failure to extract and failure to fire.

Word is that the very early guns went through without the customary testing due to some sort of Czech government restrictions on their end at that time. The fact that they had problems with the initial production guns gave them a bit of a black eye at the time. I honestly thought that the RAMI was released before 2007 but it may be that there was advertisements for it for a year or two before it finally hit the shelves. With the crap we had in CA at the time it could have been another year before any really got in this stupid state. At least that was before Kamala Harris managed to royally screw things up by requiring microstamping.

Arroyoshark,
I'm with you on the 9mm as opposed to the .40 S&W.
One of my coworkers is a .40 guy with a Beretta Px4 that he really likes. He wanted and eventually got a S&W Shield in the same caliber with the idea of teaching his wife to shoot it right up until he got it to the range and put some rounds through it. He said it was pretty peppy for him and would be too snappy for her.

I tried to get a CZ40 back when they were pretty common and not too expensive but the only place that had them in stock wouldn't ship to CA even though they were specifically allowed for sale here.
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Re: Small handguns

Postby GasGuzzler » 19 Feb 2020 07

My Dad has an M&P40C and it's no worse than my Shield 9. It is slightly bigger than a Shield but you'd have to put them side by side or read specs to tell.
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Re: Small handguns

Postby Archer » 19 Feb 2020 14

I had a cool response written out but my login apparently timed out before I hit post.

I've not usually been recoil sensitive and I've noticed that most experienced shooters and a lot of guys who are in shape and aren't having joint problems or injuries rarely notice differences in recoil unless there's something about the gun that concentrates the recoil into a small area. I absolutely HATED the factory target grips on my Smith 29-2. A single cylinder was painful. After putting Hogue grips on the gun I can shoot it all I want without any issues.

I've noticed that new shooters, smaller shooters, women and older people tend to be more sensitive to minor variations in caliber, gun size, spring strength.

IMO the Shield does a good job of having a grip that is comfortable to shoot.
By comparison the Ruger LC9 isn't much smaller but the backstrap of the grip is less contoured to my hand, is thinner and while I don't find it uncomfortable I've had three newbie shooters, 2 ladies and 1 big ugly dude say they didn't want to run more than a magazine through it. The big ugly dude is both a newbie and old enough that he's willing to admit what he likes without any insecurity a younger guy might exhibit.

When I worked behind the counter at my friend's shop the complaints about recoil I heard most often were concerning the .40 caliber 3" XD subcompact and the .40 Shield. About half the time the complaints were that some guy had bought one for his wife or girlfriend to use and she shot them at the range one time and refused to touch them afterward. I haven't shot either in .40 but I've shot the subcompact Glock in .40 and it was fun. But then I'm a 6' 220 lb guy who's been shooting handguns for more than 30 years and cut my eye teeth on a 1911.

Different people feel things differently.
We never got ANY complaints about the .380 Sig P238 and just about EVERYONE could manipulate them.
We got quite a few people who found the LC380ca less comfortable and harder to load.
Same caliber, close to the same size gun with the Ruger maybe being bigger but the Sig being a little thicker and less square on the backside of the grip.
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Re: Small handguns

Postby GasGuzzler » 19 Feb 2020 21

True that. I'm 5'11" 150 pounds, mile in 6.0X minutes, 5K in about 21 minutes now days, play rec league softball once per week, learning golf (left swing) and guitar, help coach my DAUGHTER's 10U kid pitch BOY's baseball team so I am a mobile person with little joint trouble. I do not sit around and have none of the signs of needing to slow down. I can lay flat on my back with my heals against my waist. :)
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Re: Small handguns

Postby Arroyoshark » 21 Feb 2020 13

Well now, that is all sumpthin' ...

I can run to the mailbox and back if it's raining, my children are all grown, my guitar needs restringing, one of my knees is a little blown and when I lay flat on my back on the ground I have to ponder how to get up quickly. I'm not a fat guy, just a senior citizen elgible guy. LOL

Still I enjoy elk hunting in the NM mountains. I am not a stranger to recoil, enjoying the.44 mags, .45-70 and .450 Marlin calibers. I get the oomph of those calibers.

From the few .40 handguns I've sampled - Glops and S&W M&P's and one Sig - I found the .40 S&W much more snappy in back of hand than either similar 9mm handguns or the ,.45 auto in a 1911. It is my perception, but it would discourage me from owning that caliber in a dinky handgun when I find there are other acceptable options.

Being mostly a wheelgun guy, a S&W airweight has made most sense to me, and has been utilized. To reduce printing in pocket carry, tho, I had been casting about for a dinky 9 mm. I am not interested in Glops, or any other striker fired piece for pocket carry. I think it unsafe. I have not vetted this CZ RAMI recently addressed in this thread, nor have I exhausted reviewing the alternatives.

I would enjoy hearing the experience of others with small, micro-9nn's, especially those that are hammer fired.

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Re: Small handguns

Postby HarryAlonzo » 21 Feb 2020 15

Walther PPS in 40, mainly because I didn’t know any better. I started with a Beretta PX4 & CX4 in 40, and didn’t want to add another family to feed. The Walther is accurate & reliable. Yeah, recoil is snappy, but I shoot 44 (Don’t know any better). I recall that I swapped the front sight to correct POI. Magazines are hard to find at a reasonable price. Holsters are available, with patience.
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Re: Small handguns

Postby Archer » 21 Feb 2020 15

I am overall not a big fan of striker fired guns.
That said, I have over the years procured quite a few.
The worst with respect to reliability is a stainless American Eagle Luger. I think half it's problems were related to polishing compounds that may not have been removed after manufacturing. The other half may be the nature of stainless and the variations in ammo. It is however not a small 9mm.

With respect to small 9mms.
I have two of the Springfield EMP with 3" barrel and they have been excellent so far. These guns are alloy frame with stainless slides and Springfield lists them under their 1911 options. I purchased one new at a almost reasonable price and found the other one used at a gunshow at a price I though I might be able to get at least most of my money out of it if I needed to sell it. Both have been very good. The guns are listed at 27 ounces. Both of my guns came with 3 9 round magazines and magazines can be had but you might have to look a little for them. I have at least 5 spares in addition to the ones that came with the guns. Work just like a 1911 with a slightly different take down and has an ambi safety from the factory and night sights. A little pricey. I have not done extensive testing of these guns with hollow points. They have been reliable with ball so far and a few HPs. It has been my experience with SA that they sometimes require a break-in period and that the EMP in particular may not like HP ammo especially when new. I have been shooting SA guns for over 3 decades and they have gotten better over the years but I tend to have reservations until I see them wrung out on an individual basis. These guns are about a 85 or 90% size 1911 with a 3" barrel. Most holsters I see recomended for these guns are the same as officer's 1911 holsters. I am not at all sure I believe that will work. One of these days soon I'll probably try the holster my CDP Ultra rides in to check.

The Ruger LC9 is technically hammer fired. The hammer is small and does not protrude from the gun.
The one I have was purchased as a LC389ca to which I applied the LC9 conversion kit.
I find the gun comfortable to shoot although it is quite small and the backstrap is thin and feels somewhat squared off instead of contoured as much as you might like on the edges. The gun and the mags come with baseplates that are flush as well as with finger extensions. The finger extensions are nice for larger hands. Reported weight is 17.1 ounces. Magazines are 7 round although there are extended mags available I have not tried them. The gun comes with one magazine. (The conversion kit also comes with one magazine.) Spare magazines are easy to find. Economical if you live in a free state or you can find a sale. The LC9 conversion kit is often overpriced IMO but since we can't get the 9mm as a full gun in CA it is nice to be able to get the conversion. Shopping around for the conversion can lower the price. These guns are often available used by what I've sen on the auction sites. I have not acquired a holster for this gun yet. That said, avoiding pocket lint in the works might be a very good thing.

The Smith & Wesson Shield 9 is striker fired, slightly larger than the LC9 by a small amount, is better contoured to the hand and might be a tad easier to shoot. The mags for the Shield are slightly wider although they are not 'double stacked'. I feel like the magazine springs on the Shield are much better than those used by the Ruger LC9 or LC380 although I have not had any problems with the Ruger magazines as of yet. The magazines available are a flush 7 round mag and a slightly extended 8 round magazine. The gun comes with one of each and magazines are easy to get. The gun is listed at 20.8 ounces. I have heard some complaints about the strength of the recoil spring or strength required to pull the slide back on these guns. Mine is perfect but a friend of mine got one that was very difficult. Check that before doing the paperwork. Smith periodically puts a rebate on these guns and they can be quite affordable. Holsters are not hard to find and I have a kydex IWB holster that I found on sale for $10 that I like.

The Remington R51 is an alloy framed 9mm. This gun operates by the Pedersen 'hesitation-locked' action and is internally hammer fired. When initially released it was so bad Remington recalled the weapon giving users the choice of a refund or a new pistol when the bugs were worked out. The delay cost Remington both in terms of the black eye from releasing a lemon and in terms of the market segment being served by other vendors. They rereleased the guns once they supposedly worked the bugs out. Most reports I've seen indicate that the new guns have been pretty well received and the problems with the first issues have been worked out. 7 round magazine capacity. 2 mags with the gun. Mags are available. These guns are often available below MSRP. The action is somewhat unique. Taking the gun down for cleaning or maintenance is not too hard but putting it back together can be a bit of a pain and I do not recommend people with limited hand strength attempt it. I have not fired this little gun enough to be comfortable recomending it without reservation although it has so far functioned well for me. The gun does have a grip safety so if you are not holding the gun firmly it may not be depressed. It is a nice small sleek package. These guns came out recomended for people with limited hand strength and for operations that MAY be acceptable but if so they might want to have them cleaned by someone else. I have not had the gun long enough to get to holster shopping. I wasn't exactly keen on this gun after it's debut as a jamomatic. They were being sold pretty inexpensively though and I decided to take a chance. It was a gift from my father. It is unavailable in CA unless you are a LEO.

I have not tried one of the Springfield 911 or Sig P298s or Kimber Micro 9.
I have a friend who had problems with the Kimber Micro in .380. He went through 2 of them with problems and swore off of them.
I have a friend with a 911 Springfield who has good things to say about it but he's in a free state and I haven't seen the gun or fired it and he's only had it for a few months.

This thread has me starting to Jones for a RAMI and a CZ compact 75...(in 9mm, I don't feel the need to add .40 especially in a subcompact gun)
I don't need them but I'm starting to want them.
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Re: Small handguns

Postby Archer » 21 Feb 2020 15

pictures when I can...
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Re: Small handguns

Postby Arroyoshark » 21 Feb 2020 20

My mind keeps wandering back to the CZ RAMI. Had not been aware of it before mention here. It is small, holds 10 rounds with flush mag, has old school long double action I suppose, but I like the option of cocked and locked if holster is right. May have to wander down to Albuquerque and check one out at the big box G.S., if they have it in stock. Need to coon-finger one a little bit to see if I like how it fits in hand, prints in pocket, etc.

The EMP is a grand little piece .... for about a grand now. Not that flush to try one for a pocket companion, but who knows. I have tried a Ruger LC
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Re: Small handguns

Postby Arroyoshark » 21 Feb 2020 20

this got away from me. I've tried an LC9 last summer. The grip contour is not good for me. The backstrap whacks my thumb joint at web when fired and is not comfortable for a whole mag.
When sitting down to clean a gun, the first step is to load another gun - Elmer Keith
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