Building a HK Clone?

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Building a HK Clone?

Postby Archer » 04 Sep 2018 03

Anyone have any experience with this?
Any advice other than keep it legal (both in terms of Fed part count rules, conversion or replacement of any FA parts to SA, and in terms of CA's silly posterior laws.)

Looking at maybe building a HK93 and/or HK91 clone.
Might be less expensive to just buy the PTR91 than build a HK91 but I'm curious having assembled ARs and an AK to do it the hard way. Even then I'll have to pay a welder since I'm not one and I'm not going down that educational and experimental path for this project. I'm also hearing that the run of the mill commercial build can be beat with the right barrel.
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Re: Building a HK Clone?

Postby akuser47 » 04 Sep 2018 16

I cant help, but I understand the want the delayed blowback of the mp5 has always intrigued me. Please make update this thread on this adventure no matter which route. +corn
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Re: Building a HK Clone?

Postby Archer » 05 Sep 2018 08

This will not be as quick a build as the AR or AK.

HK91 Clone build list:
G3 demilled parts kit
U.S. manufactured cold hammer forged barrel (U.S. part count 1)
PTR 91 receiver (I went with the one without the rail) (U.S. part count 1)
PTR 91 Trunnion (U.S. part count 1)
Semi auto trigger pack (counts as 4 U.S. parts)
Modified 10/20 magazines for CA
Compensator (essentially a flash hider look alike without the cuts for CA)(U.S. part count 1)
Metal grip frame clipped and pinned modified for semi auto receiver
New cocking tube
New cocking tube hanger
cleaned triple sight assembly
Featureless grip fin for CA

The new trunnion allows me to get the U.S. parts count up (Foreign parts count down) and allows me to install any legal magazine and any legal muzzle device without worrying about their place of manufacture.
It also allows me to possibly avoid cleanup on the one in the parts kit although I probably will just for the practice.
The possible downside is I may have to change out the rollers in the bolt carrier which I might have had to do anyway.
The new cocking tube and hanger allow me to avoid the possibility of having the welder butt weld the tube or having to weld a damaged (cracked, thinned or holed tube from splitting it out of the old receiver chunk)and mean I don't have to clean up the one from the parts kit although I might anyway. The cocking tube is available as a U.S. part but since I may clean up the existing I am not taking advantage of the count.
Same deal with the cleaned triple sight assembly. I don't have to worry about the condition of the parts kit one and in this case it was economical.
Likewise getting the trigger/grip frame clipped and pinned means I don't have to get that modification right on my own.

There are various trigger packs on the market and you can assemble U.S. made hammer, sear, triggers into a pack. I chose to procure a pack that is 4 U.S. parts rather than one that was 3 for this build. I will probably go through the exercise of assembling at least one myself.

The bolt carrier modifications I've seen should be pretty easy. It involves one small cut on the underside of the bolt to prevent automatic operation. Since the trigger pack is semi auto this modification is essentially not needed but to keep the FEDs totally happy and avoid any prospect of getting anything wrong it will be done.

There will be a bit of a delay since I had some parts sent outside of CA because they included magazines not legal here. I'll either have to modify those before bringing them into CA or more likely leave them outside of CA for when I manage to get out.

I may or may not do the individual mods/cleanup to the G3 parts that I'm buying duplicates of. IF I do then I'll may essentially wind up with a good number of either spares or about a third of the parts needed to do a second clone build. There is also the possibility of selling those extra parts but that's not too likely.

There are some sources for U.S. produced furniture which would also get the part count up but I hate the possibility of unknowingly turning a legal weapon into an illegal one simply by changing a stock or pistol grip.
Likewise there are U.S. produced poly magazines which if used count as 3 U.S. parts. WRT CA they would also have to be blocked to 10 rounds.
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Re: Building a HK Clone?

Postby akuser47 » 08 Sep 2018 17

Looks like you have it well thought out. I know little about these guns but I know I eventually want one. I wish I had bought a cetme when they were like 350 bucks for the century ones. Though those had issues I always wanted one.
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Re: Building a HK Clone?

Postby Archer » 09 Sep 2018 05

I passed on a Century CETME last year. The vendor was charging PTR prices.
I'm hearing mostly good things about the PTR but the guy who got me into building says he's been getting better groups than the PTRs he's been shooting against. Don't know how much if any of that's the shooter since I think they trade off during some of the shoots.

I know Century has had a spotty rep. I've heard more than one guy talk about having seen some of the fabrication back when they were doing builds in CA. I've seen some FN/FAL builds that required tweaking. I'm not sure what they've been doing lately but I've heard the C93 production was somewhat problematic with some customers having to send rifles back multiple times for corrective action.

The guy who got me into building has fixed several Century marked guns over the years or made modifications to allow spec parts to be used on them where the Century didn't meet specs. He's not generally a fan and that's probably colored my thought process. IF I can get a receiver for the 93 that's marked Vector instead of Century I'll pay the extra even though both of the 93 receivers have had some issues with the scope mount tabs the Vector has generally had a much better functional reputation overall and to be honest I'm not really thinking I need a scoped 93. I don't really need to scope a 91 either for that matter as I've got a AR-10 and a M1A with scopes on them. My interest in the 91/93 guns is more for the fun of it.

I sort of wish I'd gotten the civilianized roller lock guns back in the 80s or so or at least the .308 but then again it's hard to beat the Savage bolt guns for a nice accurate hunting rifle.
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Re: Building a HK Clone?

Postby Archer » 16 Sep 2018 13

Got the PTR receiver in. Looks pretty good but still in the middle of a waiting period.
Got the neutered mags in. Those for the 91 were riveted in such a way they could still be taken apart for cleaning. Whoever did the job didn't clean the insides of the mag bodies before the job and left metal from drilling the rivet holes plus the pop rivet heads inside the mags so it was a good think they could be taken apart. One of the other ones I bought a while back at one of the gunshows had a block inserted in the mag and then the bottom epoxied on. That one ain't going to be easy to clean up if it needs it.
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Re: Building a HK Clone?

Postby Archer » 03 Oct 2018 00

So I've had the parts on order and the packages arrived.
Note to self: Don't send TWO similar demilled firearms to my father ANYONE along with spare parts at the SAME time. IF it's a must include without including detailed PICTORIAL, verbal and weblink descriptions of what is supposed to be in each package BEFORE they arrive.
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Re: Building a HK Clone?

Postby Archer » 30 Oct 2018 05

This is going to take at least a little while.
The parts list for the 91 build is actually about the same as buying a factory PTR 91.
I've been more or less convinced to have the work done by someone who knows what they are doing.
That means a considerable build cost since the workman's hire tends to be worthy of the work when you want it done right the first time.

The parts list for the 93 also adds up and receivers are a pain to find decent already built serialed ones.

Reports on built guns from Vector are coming in about as bad as 16" Rossi 92s in that at least 50% claim the sights cannot be regulated to point of aim having crooked charging tubes and/or sights. Reports on Century 93 guns are about the same as reports are always on Century guns. PTR was welding those receivers however and apparently took over the last 800 as PTRs even though the receivers were marked Century. Of course those PTR/Century guns sold out inside of 3 days.

Just reinforcing the need to have someone do the job who hopefully knows what they are doing.
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Re: Building a HK Clone?

Postby akuser47 » 01 Nov 2018 17

I can understand, a lot goes into building them compared to an ak.
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