Lead ball to push out broken case - brass rod?

Share your experience in caring for your favorite Rossi with other members or ask the question that you cannot find the answer to!
techiej
Posts: 22
Joined: 08 Sep 2013 17:00
Location: WA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Lead ball to push out broken case - brass rod?

Post by techiej »

I have a '92 in 357 (24" barrel) with a case that has broken off inside.

Have already tried oversized bore brush and was going to try a lead ball next. Question: is there any reason to use a wood dowel vs a brass rod for this? I have a brass rod of suitable length and diameter.

Feedback would be appreciated while I try to find someone who has the lead balls in stock.

I figured if this didn't work I would end up removing the bolt and trying a tapered screw extractor next.
User avatar
mr surveyor
1000 Shots
1000 Shots
Posts: 1608
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 11:20
Location: NE Texas
Has thanked: 486 times
Been thanked: 292 times

Re: Lead ball to push out broken case - brass rod?

Post by mr surveyor »

Twice last year I had case head separations in my 44 mag R92 and first attempt was to use a new, slightly oversized, bore brush (insert rod all the way into the receiver - attach the brush - pull brush until it's well within the separated case - try to push out. No matter how much oil/solvent I thought I'd gotten to ooze into the space between the case and the chamber, and try to thoroughly dry the inside of the damaged casing, it just wouldn't work. SO .......

I oiled the inside of the barrel well, took a 249 gr cast bullet and drove it into the barrel enough to use a short section of long retired cleaning rod to drive it a few more inches down the barrel. Then too a piece of dowel rod and tapped it the rest of the way - separated casing popped right out. About a month later, same thing happened and had the problem solved in about 10 minutes total.

I was able to track down the history of that brass, and knowing the shooter/re-loader that gave me a couple hundred pieces of his Remington brass, I knew the problem. He's known for stretching the load values and no doubt had stressed the majority of the brass. I went through all my loaded ammo as well as a large volume of mixed 44 mag brass and pulled out every piece of brass that came from him.

So, to answer your question, a ball might work o.k., but I know that a cast semi wad cutter will work. And your brass rod should work as long as you can keep it fairly well center on the "slug"


jd

oh ... I also remembered that I drilled a hole from meplat to bullet base through the bullet to allow for the compression
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guns - They aren't really yours until you void the warranty!
Archer
2000 Shots
2000 Shots
Posts: 3942
Joined: 04 Feb 2014 05:30
Location: SoCal Loco
Has thanked: 137 times
Been thanked: 610 times

Re: Lead ball to push out broken case - brass rod?

Post by Archer »

mr surveyor,

Got a question regarding that brass.
Was there ANY indication of head separation inside that brass before it broke in two?

I purchased a large amount of reloading equipment and supplies around 24 or 25 years ago. Included in the mix were hundreds of Federal .308 cases that had been shot through a M1A. I had one case that developed a pinhole in the area you'd potentially get a case head separation. At that point I went through ALL the cases with a wire hook probe tool made from a paper clip and discarded around 80+ of them because I could detect the thinning area groove near the case head. It often was only detectable on one side of the case.

That has become a standard check I make on ALL my bottle necked cases. I'm wondering if I need to add that kind of step to the Magnum handgun and maybe .45-70 and .444 brass? So far I haven't had any issues with any straight walled handgun case and the only issue I've had with .45-70 was a case that burned a pinhole through the side of the case the about halfway between the case head and mouth on the very first reload.
User avatar
mr surveyor
1000 Shots
1000 Shots
Posts: 1608
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 11:20
Location: NE Texas
Has thanked: 486 times
Been thanked: 292 times

Re: Lead ball to push out broken case - brass rod?

Post by mr surveyor »

Archer wrote:mr surveyor,

Got a question regarding that brass.
Was there ANY indication of head separation inside that brass before it broke in two?

I purchased a large amount of reloading equipment and supplies around 24 or 25 years ago. Included in the mix were hundreds of Federal .308 cases that had been shot through a M1A. I had one case that developed a pinhole in the area you'd potentially get a case head separation. At that point I went through ALL the cases with a wire hook probe tool made from a paper clip and discarded around 80+ of them because I could detect the thinning area groove near the case head. It often was only detectable on one side of the case.

That has become a standard check I make on ALL my bottle necked cases. I'm wondering if I need to add that kind of step to the Magnum handgun and maybe .45-70 and .444 brass? So far I haven't had any issues with any straight walled handgun case and the only issue I've had with .45-70 was a case that burned a pinhole through the side of the case the about halfway between the case head and mouth on the very first reload.
Being it was straight wall pistol brass and somewhat well shot, I just set it back for making lighter loads. I didn't even think about how much abuse my buddy had put it through before giving it to me. After the second separation (fairly mild loads) I pulled down all of the suspect loaded cases, saved the primers and bullets then decided to "paper clip" a few looking for the tell-tale ring inside. Two out of the first 25-30 that I checked were showing the ring. I still had about 500-600 pieces of other used brass and a couple hundred new Starline brass, so tossing the whole batch of his hand-me-down Remington brass wasn't very painful.

jd
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guns - They aren't really yours until you void the warranty!
User avatar
Ranch Dog
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 9398
Joined: 23 Jan 2012 07:44
Location: Inez, TX
Has thanked: 1837 times
Been thanked: 2281 times

Re: Lead ball to push out broken case - brass rod?

Post by Ranch Dog »

I keep all the available sizes of wooden dowels in my shop. An appropriate length is great for removing stuck cases.
Michael
Image
techiej
Posts: 22
Joined: 08 Sep 2013 17:00
Location: WA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Lead ball to push out broken case - brass rod?

Post by techiej »

Thanks. I think I'll give that a try. I shoot acme swc's - coated lead - and will see if that works for me. Wouldn't have to buy any ball ammo if it works.
mr surveyor wrote:Twice last year I had case head separations in my 44 mag R92 and first attempt was to use a new, slightly oversized, bore brush (insert rod all the way into the receiver - attach the brush - pull brush until it's well within the separated case - try to push out. No matter how much oil/solvent I thought I'd gotten to ooze into the space between the case and the chamber, and try to thoroughly dry the inside of the damaged casing, it just wouldn't work. SO .......

I oiled the inside of the barrel well, took a 249 gr cast bullet and drove it into the barrel enough to use a short section of long retired cleaning rod to drive it a few more inches down the barrel. Then too a piece of dowel rod and tapped it the rest of the way - separated casing popped right out. About a month later, same thing happened and had the problem solved in about 10 minutes total.

I was able to track down the history of that brass, and knowing the shooter/re-loader that gave me a couple hundred pieces of his Remington brass, I knew the problem. He's known for stretching the load values and no doubt had stressed the majority of the brass. I went through all my loaded ammo as well as a large volume of mixed 44 mag brass and pulled out every piece of brass that came from him.

So, to answer your question, a ball might work o.k., but I know that a cast semi wad cutter will work. And your brass rod should work as long as you can keep it fairly well center on the "slug"


jd

oh ... I also remembered that I drilled a hole from meplat to bullet base through the bullet to allow for the compression
Archer
2000 Shots
2000 Shots
Posts: 3942
Joined: 04 Feb 2014 05:30
Location: SoCal Loco
Has thanked: 137 times
Been thanked: 610 times

Re: Lead ball to push out broken case - brass rod?

Post by Archer »

I seem to recall several times running across the information from some of the gunrag writers that for the high pressure revolvers brass quality went something like Federal then Winchester then Remington according to the number of times you could reload it without problems. That was old data from back when there was mainly the big three and probably reprinted often.

Despite the fact that Federal manufactures/manufactured most of the 'match' .308 ammo and brass I've ever seen for sale when it came to .308 for use in semi autos Winchester and Lake City and maybe IAI headstamps were preferred for the M1A/M14 and M1 Garand. The Federal Match stuff wasn't tough enough especially for the M1A style guns. Primer pockets tended to get loose pretty rapidly even with standard pressure loads and the rims/case heads took a beating in the extraction/ejection process. The guy I got the equipment and components from typically used Federal Match for both brass and primers. Lots of guys did but the primers are now generally considered to be too soft for free floating firing pin guns. I've also seen recommendations to ditch the brass used in semis after 4 trims max. One 'authority' said he ran his M1A brass for 3 loads and then started with fresh brass.
techiej
Posts: 22
Joined: 08 Sep 2013 17:00
Location: WA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Lead ball to push out broken case - brass rod?

Post by techiej »

It worked!

Took a little bit to get the bullet in and down a couple of inches. After that it went quickly.

Many thanks to mr surveyor.
User avatar
mr surveyor
1000 Shots
1000 Shots
Posts: 1608
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 11:20
Location: NE Texas
Has thanked: 486 times
Been thanked: 292 times

Re: Lead ball to push out broken case - brass rod?

Post by mr surveyor »

glad I could help


jd
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guns - They aren't really yours until you void the warranty!
Reese-Mo
250 Shots
250 Shots
Posts: 468
Joined: 07 Apr 2021 13:08
Location: Florida Swampland
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Lead ball to push out broken case - brass rod?

Post by Reese-Mo »

Just a reminder to use a close fitting rod in the bore.

As a side note..... my ex-boss "Mr. Outdoorsman" (not!) had a pellet pistol that "failed to fire", so he tried to shoot it about a dozen more times with no success, then checked the bore, concluding he had a "pellet stuck in the barrel". He asked me to clear it.

It was a Sheridan, so I was able to remove the bolt, and a small rod pushed from one direction, and then the other, revealed about three inches of stuck pellets in the bore. Brownells had some rod that was just under 5mm, I think it was .200 drill rod. I had to buy three feet of it, cut a short section, beveled, and used as a starter. No amount of hammer would do it. Had to cut the rod so it protruded about an inch from the muzzle and use my 12 tone hydraulic press, add a longer rod, repeat, a an inch filler rod, use the first rod again.... repeat a few times till the worm of pellets passed thru the breach.

Rolling my eyes a bit here... my boss always made me laugh. He wanted so much to be a regular guy, but couldn't make the grade. His wife made him the metro his is today. New plaid shirts and pleated jeans and shiny boots do not an outdoorsman make.
Post Reply