Breaking: 9th Circuit Rules California Magazine Ban Unconsti

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Breaking: 9th Circuit Rules California Magazine Ban Unconsti

Postby Arroyoshark » 15 Aug 2020 21

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Re: Breaking: 9th Circuit Rules California Magazine Ban Unco

Postby Archer » 15 Aug 2020 22

Good news, was going to update the previous thread but it was over a year old and autolocked.

This is STILL an interim ruling. That is to say: IT ISN'T OVER, YET!

Although I got several e-mails from the usual mail order/etailer suspects yesterday offering to ship mags to CA it may not be legal to purchase standard cap mags yet. Seems the injunction may still be in place in spite of the 9th circuit ruling of the law being unconstitutional. The state of CA in the from of the AG and governor have until the 28th of this month to either appeal to an en banc panel of the 9th circuit OR appeal straight to the Supreme Court.

I personally suspect they may appeal to the full 9th circuit as that probably doesn't cost them anything and gets them a free shot but I figure they will wait until the 28th to file the appeal.

The Supreme Court right now is a crap shoot. John Roberts is running the court like a 8 year old little girl runs a pink tea party.

Judge Benitez has darned near become a patron saint of 2nd amendment folks and those who think the constitution and the bill of rights says what it means and means what it says.

For those who don't know this case is with regard to CA's prohibition on magazines that can hold more than ten rounds. CA further extended this law to RETROACTIVELY and without compensation ban all preowned/preexisting magazines in the hands of citizens in the state of CA.

This case fights that law and as I understand it used among other arguements three examples of people who were directly impacted by this law. In two cases women were unable to reply to attacks because they essentially ran out of rounds and could not reload. In the third case the attackers were repealed in part because the person being attacked had more than ten rounds on tap and in the firearm in question.

When Benitez ruled on this initially about a year and a half ago there was about a week where CA citizens could buy magazines and they bought ALL of them nation wide. The stay remains in place at the moment although with the ruling of unconstitutionality the AG might be hard pressed to prosecute in a successful manner. I had stock piled a number outside the state before the previous ruling. I had those shipped in when it was legal to do so over a year ago. For the moment I'm good although I wouldn't mind getting a few more the supply on tap at the moment is very low due to the Chinese biological attack on the world and the communist/antifa attacks on the country disguised as race riots.
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Re: Breaking: 9th Circuit Rules California Magazine Ban Unco

Postby Archer » 15 Aug 2020 22

I sure wish I could make the state replace my 'unconstitutionally mandated Kaliban mags' with standard mags from the same manufacturers. I've got stacks of 10 round mags that were mandated by the state.
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Re: Breaking: 9th Circuit Rules California Magazine Ban Unco

Postby TinMan » 16 Aug 2020 12

Archer wrote:I sure wish I could make the state replace my 'unconstitutionally mandated Kaliban mags' with standard mags from the same manufacturers. I've got stacks of 10 round mags that were mandated by the state.


Are the mags actually shorter or just standard length with internal limiters?
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Re: Breaking: 9th Circuit Rules California Magazine Ban Unco

Postby Archer » 16 Aug 2020 20

With response to what the magazines look like, IT DEPENDS!

Magazines limited to 10 round can be done in many different ways but from a legal standpoint it has to be done in a manner that it is not easily converted into a standard capacity mag.

When it comes to rifle mags where the magazine mostly sticks outside the weapon there are several ways this can be done:

1) A shorter magazine that accepts 10 rounds only is designed.
2) A Standard magazine that accepts more than 10 rounds is altered so that it only accepts 10 rounds:
a) The magazine can have a block inserted inside the magazine that prevents the follower from full travel. The magazine is then welded, glued or riveted shut so that the block cannot be easily removed.

b) A rivet is inserted through the side or front of the mag so that the follower stops allowing no more than 10 rounds to be inserted in the mag. This has the advantage over the previous situation in that the floor plate can be removed for cleaning.

c) The body of the magazine is altered, usually by crimping so that the capacity is limited to 10 rounds.

With regards to pistol magazines it is much the same BUT since most pistol magazines have to be inserted in the butt of the gun a shorter than designed magazine will not work. Magazines are usually redesigned to limit capacity to 10 rounds.
Some examples:
1) Glock factory magazines are the same size as normal capacity mags but typically are single stack instead of double stack.

2) The old Mec-Gar magazines used a short tube and spring with the same follower as normal. The short tube was married to a solid plastic block floorplate usually about an inch or inch and a half long. These were great mags for a limited capacity mag as they were very durable and they worked.

3) The old USA and Pro-Mag method was to put a couple dimples in the side of the mag tube. These dimples limited the travel of the follower when loaded. The mag tube was scored around the tube except for the dimples to prevent the owner from drilling the dimples out and having a usable magazine. These magazines could work but IMO USA had quality control problems and the company went out of business from producing shoddy product. ProMag can be ok but in my experience their mag bodies can be soft and their feed lips are not always the right angle to match the OEM mags they are trying to copy. Mec-Gar is now using this method and I am concerned that while it simplifies their production by using the same floorplates, same springs as normal mags it may introduce issues with the springs having to force over the dimples as it feeds the rounds.

4) A block can be inserted or a rivet punched through the side to limit follower travel but as pistol mags generally are a tight fit to the grip frame of the handgun the rivet method isn't used much and it can be a problem to glue or rivet the floor plate in place when using an internal block.

Simply placing a limiter block in a magazine such as the Magpul limiters is not sufficient to satisfy CADOJ because it has to be a permanent modification that cannot be easily reversed. While a rivet CAN be drilled out it IS a permanent fastener and satisfied the CADoJ inspectors when my friend had a gunshop a few years ago. Before that the shop was using a glue on the baseplates of magpul mags but magpul changed the plastic composition and the new plastic wouldn't bond easily to any of the glues they tried. I have one or two of the glued mags that I doubt could be returned to full function. It was legal to remove rivets during freedom week, but after that week passed it was once again illegal to alter limited capacity mags.

I have literally dozens of OEM reduced capacity magazines for handguns that were included with the guns or purchased as spares for those gun. For example my Springfield XD9 came NEW with 5 10 round magazines. My Glock came with 2 or 3 and I purchased 2 or 3 extras. My Springfield XD45T came with 10 round magazines. My Beretta 92 came with 10 round mags. My CZ-75 came with 10 round mags. My Para Ord P14 came with a 10 round mag and a coupon for the purchase of 2 14 round magazines at a 'reduced' price. The Para was purchased right before the Kaliban. One of my High Powers came with two 10 round mags.

I have generally preferred that if I buy a 10 round rifle mag the magazine be a 'short' magazine rather than a reduced capacity mag. The reason for that is so that I don't have to explain to or prove to a LEO that the magazine in my weapon is legal. I have probably 12 or 20 short 10 round 5.56 AR mags while I would probably have picked up no more than 8 or 10 for use off the bench. Same thing for the .308 Large frame ARs and the FN/FAL. I've got 6 Grendel 10 round mags where I might have picked up 17 or 24 round mags for half of those given that I've got 3 of those guns. I even had to buy 10 round M1 Carbine magazines to stay legal under the CA regulations.
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Re: Breaking: 9th Circuit Rules California Magazine Ban Unco

Postby Archer » 29 Aug 2020 01

AND as expected Xaviera Becerra has appealed to the court for an en banc panel review.
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