Re: CAS....SASS!?
19 Oct 2013 20:14
ironhead7544 wrote:
I would like to see a non costume type club too. I was going to get into cowboy shooting but after going to several shoots I changed my mind. Very few people would even talk to me. I only met a couple of guys that I thought were OK. They said it had become a mess with all the clothes rules and very unfriendly as far as competition went. Seemed like combat shooting with funny clothes. Very unfriendly and a lot of them acted like they were afraid of new people who might be better shooters and a risk to them. I started combat shooting around 1975 but gave it up because of that kind of attitude.[quote="Model 52"
Very similar to my encounter- I was gung-ho a couple years ago and actually joined SASS before I went to a match, because of scheduling and my job...anyway when I made it to the first match I went to observe and learn. I wasn't dressed up, although my normal attire would have only required a hat to resemble a 'cowboy', and what I discovered was exactly opposite of what I had heard/read about SASS. There was one guy there I had talked with online on the SASS forum who knew I was coming, and he was ~younger, as am I (compared to the majority of shooters) and when he got there came over and talked to me and tried to show me around and tell me how things worked. He was the ONLY PERSON there that spoke to me! Before he showed up I stood around for 20 minutes, listened to the safety chat, etc, watched people getting ready, putting their carts together...and every single one of them made eye contact with me but never so much as waved. They did, however look at me like the 'outsider' I was, and with disdain. 20 years on the police department taught me what it looks like when someone looks at you that way-
I stayed for a while and followed the pack along and learned pretty quickly that the competition side of it was all that this group cared about. They argued and bickered if they though they had been timed wrong and if someone did something they thought was wrong and the 'range officer' dude didn't catch it, they went nuts on him like a soccer mom on a ref at her kids game. It was a joke. They looked like a bunch of clowns, too, and it was obvious that their costumes and carts were 'bling' to them- and the 'one-upmanship' amongst them with their outfits was apparent.
Anyway, technically I guess I still belong to SASS; I had hoped to find another club to shoot with one day, but there are none within an hours' drive that I know of, and I wouldn't waste another weekend day on this bunch of idiots for anything.
Re: CAS....SASS!?
20 Oct 2013 06:52
kokopelli wrote:ironhead7544 wrote:
I would like to see a non costume type club too. I was going to get into cowboy shooting but after going to several shoots I changed my mind. Very few people would even talk to me. I only met a couple of guys that I thought were OK. They said it had become a mess with all the clothes rules and very unfriendly as far as competition went. Seemed like combat shooting with funny clothes. Very unfriendly and a lot of them acted like they were afraid of new people who might be better shooters and a risk to them. I started combat shooting around 1975 but gave it up because of that kind of attitude.[quote="Model 52"
Very similar to my encounter- I was gung-ho a couple years ago and actually joined SASS before I went to a match, because of scheduling and my job...anyway when I made it to the first match I went to observe and learn. I wasn't dressed up, although my normal attire would have only required a hat to resemble a 'cowboy', and what I discovered was exactly opposite of what I had heard/read about SASS. There was one guy there I had talked with online on the SASS forum who knew I was coming, and he was ~younger, as am I (compared to the majority of shooters) and when he got there came over and talked to me and tried to show me around and tell me how things worked. He was the ONLY PERSON there that spoke to me! Before he showed up I stood around for 20 minutes, listened to the safety chat, etc, watched people getting ready, putting their carts together...and every single one of them made eye contact with me but never so much as waved. They did, however look at me like the 'outsider' I was, and with disdain. 20 years on the police department taught me what it looks like when someone looks at you that way-
I stayed for a while and followed the pack along and learned pretty quickly that the competition side of it was all that this group cared about. They argued and bickered if they though they had been timed wrong and if someone did something they thought was wrong and the 'range officer' dude didn't catch it, they went nuts on him like a soccer mom on a ref at her kids game. It was a joke. They looked like a bunch of clowns, too, and it was obvious that their costumes and carts were 'bling' to them- and the 'one-upmanship' amongst them with their outfits was apparent.
Anyway, technically I guess I still belong to SASS; I had hoped to find another club to shoot with one day, but there are none within an hours' drive that I know of, and I wouldn't waste another weekend day on this bunch of idiots for anything.
I checked out a couple of groups and settled on NCOWS (National Congress of Old West Shootest) which is fairly strict on authenticity in dress and guns. Now the group I belong to Johnson County Rangers in Kentucky is very friendly and often have guest we let compete if they wish, even lending them the guns if they don't have them. You have a full year to come up with an outfit and we have 2 gun classes which require a rifle and one pistol called Working Cowboy. For cloths a pair of period correct pants (spenders, button fly, no belt loops), period shirt (generally pull over 4 button up right collar, long sleeves), hat (period correct style), boots (not modern style but usually stove pipe style of some sort). You only need one outfit though more is also nice. Cloths run about the same price as modern close also with boots being the most expensive item.
It is also inexpensive to join about $35 a year + $5 posse dues fee a year if member and $10 per meet (includes the lunch, usually a sandwich, chips and drinks). Often equipment from guns, holsters, cloths etc for sale at these things by members. I've been doing it for 3 years now though couldn't attend any this year due to health problems.
As for the shooting, it depends on the class you enter as to equipment requirements. Competition is based more on accuracy than speed unlike SASS. Rifle targets are small, sometimes moving and 50+ yards, with pistol 20 - 25 yards in most cases and again small. Shotgun are often moving such as clays or smaller. Classes for black powder or smokeless which every one prefers.
Re: CAS....SASS!?
22 Oct 2013 10:40
I guess I am luck I found an awesome very laid back SASS club to shoot with down here in Ruidoso, NM. We normally have 10-15 shooters and there are no costume Nazi's ruining the game for us. Everyone is real laid back and easy to chat with. We do have a few gamers that use our matches for pracitce for other bigger matches but they are nice about it and are always giving us new guys tips on how to be better and faster. If you all are even in Ruidoso on the second saturday of the month let me know and I'll introduce you to the Lincoln County Regulators.
We also do a long range shoot that is normally on the third Saturday of the month, all guns with actions designed prior to 1900 are legal to shoot. We got one guy shooting a Rossi 92 in 45 LC out to 300 yards and he makes a few of us that shoot Sharps look like rookies everytime.
We also do a long range shoot that is normally on the third Saturday of the month, all guns with actions designed prior to 1900 are legal to shoot. We got one guy shooting a Rossi 92 in 45 LC out to 300 yards and he makes a few of us that shoot Sharps look like rookies everytime.
Re: CAS....SASS!?
30 Oct 2013 07:57
The first "Cowboy Action" Match in Germany was held in 1999 ( called "Westernschiessen").
The rules are very similar to SASS, but at this time without this awful B Movie Category and a higher velocity of the Ammo - i m very glad about this.
Interested in CAS since years, but i was afraid about this clothing thing.
Change my mind on this entirely.
Regret that i wasn´t on CAS years earlier.
The rules are very similar to SASS, but at this time without this awful B Movie Category and a higher velocity of the Ammo - i m very glad about this.
Interested in CAS since years, but i was afraid about this clothing thing.
Change my mind on this entirely.
Regret that i wasn´t on CAS years earlier.
Re: CAS....SASS!?
13 Nov 2013 12:08
The club where I shoot has a SASS club and hosts the annual SASS state championship. I have been to a few of their matches and the folks seem very nice, but some of them are scary good. The local club's membership includes two or three past national champions and I figure I would have to shoot in the Old Folks and Little Children class. 
Re: CAS....SASS!?
13 Nov 2013 12:32
Last Week placed only at 21 in the Overall, but have lots of fun 
Re: CAS....SASS!?
13 Nov 2013 16:05
Standing in suffocating "period" apparel in stiffling 90 degree heat sucking in clouds of black powder smoke from 50 rifles, tolerating the insultingly barked snipes of several obnoxious range nazis & self appointed CAS pseudo-gurus.......if that's the kind of gig you enjoy .....have at it ! ....... not for me.
ENJOY !!
ENJOY !!
Re: CAS....SASS!?
30 Dec 2013 14:10
Some interesting comments in here. As with any type of activity or preference there's some that like it and some that don't. Kinda like Ford, Chevy, Dodge - we choose which shooting activity fits our enjoyment factor? Long range; IPSC; BPCR; SASS; 3-Gun; or recreational shooting, etc. It's fortunate we've still have the opportunity in this country to have the choices we do.
To me the important aspect is that it is a shooting activity, and especially one that has room for the entire family if they want to partake. Long ago I altered the title SASS to mean: Single Action Spending Society...all in good fun mind you! As with any shooting sport it takes an investment. Definitely agree with some of the posts about people's self ego disrupting, damaging and even causing total breakdowns of SASS clubs. With my working career as a stupidvisor running construction/maintenance crews, when having a meeting it didn't take long for the crew to learn my main rule: they had to check their ego's at the door, and weren't allowed to bring them into meetings! That certainly made life easier for all.
I began with SASS in Alaska in '93, and we used some of the SASS rules, then again we altered our courses and stages to make them more fun/interesting. Yes, we kept score of our times and hits for each stage, but at the end of the day we tossed our cards into a trash box and went home - we did what we could to eliminate the competition for rewards/gifts. Our main purpose was to enjoy some good times of shooting and visiting with each other, we had around 25 members back then. We didn't hold a hard line on 'you have to dress cowboy' (whatever that is?). If you showed up in bluejeans and had most of the guns needed, that was fine, for we'd loan our guns to new shooters, or the ones that forgot their gun at home or hadn't been able to buy a certain type yet. Again, it was for a time of enjoying a day of shooting and sharing time with the other members/friendships developed.
I've not shot SASS for several years now, just drifted away into other areas is all. Like some of the others in here, not too fond of the regimented shooting drills as there's not much in the way of changes with how the stages are run, and the 'gamers' should definitely have their own stages! Too much emphasis on competition and egos these days. As for the clothing, not a bad thing trying to be period correct. One doesn't have to break the bank to acquire a few period types of clothing pieces, even if ya wear the same clothes regularly. Indeed, some folks in SASS go the whole way and have lots of clothing, but that's their choice to elect to do so. I kept my clothing at a minimum and did just fine, as others also did/do. Some folks had foot lockers of different types n' styles of clothing - why? Because that is part of what they like to do with their participation in SASS events. Yes, there are costume events held at the banquets, and they compete for who's the fanciest or has the nicest outfit, it's just part of their enjoyment of the activities. I wasn't one to get all dressed up, wasn't my thing...I've never worn a suit yet!
Nope, SASS is not for everyone, but it is just fine for some. The same can be said for any other type of shooting activity. Let's be grateful we have such choices in this country. So with whichever type of shooting sport n' activity you prefer: enjoy and have fun while keeping it safe out there.
outsidebear
To me the important aspect is that it is a shooting activity, and especially one that has room for the entire family if they want to partake. Long ago I altered the title SASS to mean: Single Action Spending Society...all in good fun mind you! As with any shooting sport it takes an investment. Definitely agree with some of the posts about people's self ego disrupting, damaging and even causing total breakdowns of SASS clubs. With my working career as a stupidvisor running construction/maintenance crews, when having a meeting it didn't take long for the crew to learn my main rule: they had to check their ego's at the door, and weren't allowed to bring them into meetings! That certainly made life easier for all.
I began with SASS in Alaska in '93, and we used some of the SASS rules, then again we altered our courses and stages to make them more fun/interesting. Yes, we kept score of our times and hits for each stage, but at the end of the day we tossed our cards into a trash box and went home - we did what we could to eliminate the competition for rewards/gifts. Our main purpose was to enjoy some good times of shooting and visiting with each other, we had around 25 members back then. We didn't hold a hard line on 'you have to dress cowboy' (whatever that is?). If you showed up in bluejeans and had most of the guns needed, that was fine, for we'd loan our guns to new shooters, or the ones that forgot their gun at home or hadn't been able to buy a certain type yet. Again, it was for a time of enjoying a day of shooting and sharing time with the other members/friendships developed.
I've not shot SASS for several years now, just drifted away into other areas is all. Like some of the others in here, not too fond of the regimented shooting drills as there's not much in the way of changes with how the stages are run, and the 'gamers' should definitely have their own stages! Too much emphasis on competition and egos these days. As for the clothing, not a bad thing trying to be period correct. One doesn't have to break the bank to acquire a few period types of clothing pieces, even if ya wear the same clothes regularly. Indeed, some folks in SASS go the whole way and have lots of clothing, but that's their choice to elect to do so. I kept my clothing at a minimum and did just fine, as others also did/do. Some folks had foot lockers of different types n' styles of clothing - why? Because that is part of what they like to do with their participation in SASS events. Yes, there are costume events held at the banquets, and they compete for who's the fanciest or has the nicest outfit, it's just part of their enjoyment of the activities. I wasn't one to get all dressed up, wasn't my thing...I've never worn a suit yet!
Nope, SASS is not for everyone, but it is just fine for some. The same can be said for any other type of shooting activity. Let's be grateful we have such choices in this country. So with whichever type of shooting sport n' activity you prefer: enjoy and have fun while keeping it safe out there.
outsidebear
Re: CAS....SASS!?
12 Feb 2014 20:51
Tried the CAS thing 20 years ago. Apparently I wasn't dressed appropriately and got the " down the nose look" and treated like a leper. Needless to say I never went back. The SRC92 I found in the safe in December when a group at my club had a big bore match. I had forgotten it was there. Now shooting a 45colt against a bunch of old timey calibers was a hoot. I have figured out how to seat my 255 cast out to the lands with 454 brass whittled down. Did not mean to hijack the thread, sorry.
Re: CAS....SASS!?
13 May 2014 10:23
Oh where to start... but it probably doesn't matter, I see this thread was started over 2 years ago.
Let me begin by saying that I'm sorry some of seem to have judged SASS (& NCOWS), by a one-time visit or by the actions and attitudes of a few individuals.
I have a perspective of TIME in SASS, having first began cowboy action shooting back in 1985, before there was a "SASS" or "NCOWS". In fact, I'd read about this big Annual cowboy match in CA called the "End of Trail" where they used lever action rifles, single action revolvers and side by side shotguns in 1982... but the article didn't mention where it was held or how to get in touch with the organizers. And the writer of said article turns out to be a egotistical snob of very high order, (after I met him in person and conversed... but, I digress).
So... one day at a local range I run into a fellar with a t-shirt that sez EOT on the back... I talked to him and found out the where when and what-all I needed. And learned that they also held monthly matches at the same venue... also local. So I showed up with my .30-30 (with downloaded lead bullets as per the rules), my 45Colt SAA, & and old coach gun.
1st thing I learned was that they'd outlawed the .30-30 as too many guys couldn't get the concept of "downloading." Let alone using cast boolits! But, my new friend had a spare 1892 Rossi in .38... so I was in.
I was also informed that snap cowboy shirts were not introduced until the 19-teens or some such... well after the 1899 cut-off. (There was no B-Western at the monthlies)... and that my Wranglers were ok for a monthly, but since they weren't introduced until 1947, clearly I understood why they were frowned on... Even modern Levis weren't really very "cowboy" as they define the period, having no belt loops until 1920. Think the 19th century cattle drives.
Mind you the learning and lecturing about all this took place over several months... during which time I was welcome to participate and made to feel a "part of the group." But, then again, I'm sorta forward, and if a topic of conversation is something I know a little about, I'll contribute... otherwise, I'm content to keep my yap shut and learn... like my daddy taught me. And what I didn't have told me at a shoot, I went to the library, bought some historical references and studied the gear, accoutrements and clothing of the 19th century cowboy... now his 20th century counterpart, of which I was personally familiar, having worked as one on two big CA ranches.
Meanwhile I got a Rossi '92 of my own, then a '73, and another shotgun and found about more clubs that were shooting nearby (well, relatively close; they weren't all the way over in AZ)!
I've met clothing Nazi's, gun Nazi's and what have you... I've seen them come, and I've also seen them go. Mainly, on the whole, SASS people are gregarious, fun-loving and welcoming type folks. Many of them are fanatical history buffs... some of them are serious competitors, but the vast majority are probably somewhere between those extremes. (I know I am... I only get to compete a couple times a year, due to work... but my enjoyment of the game is totally predicated on my attitude... others have little influence on whether I have a good time. The only person I shoot against is myself, and if I goof off and kid around, and you don't like it, tough! If you don't like the fact that I try to take exactly 60 seconds to shoot every stage, tough... if you don't like that I'm wearin' a pair of Levi's, boots, a Henley shirt and hat... tough... show me in the rule book where it's not allowed, and I'll change. (I do have the period correct stuff, but I tend to save 'em for annual or other big matches where folks from other clubs are around...) sometimes, they're not appropriate for the weather... Texas summers can get a tad warmish for such.
I founded the club I mainly shoot with in 1991, and helped run it until 1995, then took a hiatus from "pedestrian" shooting and concentrated on mounted shooting until around 2001. When I went back, my club had moved locations (I still got the newsletter and followed along with the parties involved), but not one of club officers had been participating when I took my absence... When I signed up they questioned my SASS #, even my club membership claim (Life)... The six of us that started the club voted that our first meeting! However, there were a couple of shooters there that had at least HEARD of the founding 6, and one shooter that remembered me.
Very few shooters in any competition stick with that single form of competition for extended periods... Many of those that were there in 2001 are no longer competing in SASS. One couple has moved to starting a venue dedicated to 3-Gun... others have moved to Cowboy Lever Silhouette, etc.
One reason you probably won't find many dedicated CAS shooters here-bouts, is that the '92 is not a vey good competition gun... practical and sustaining as it may be, it doesn't take well to being re-engineered into a fast acting "race-gun". Not that it really needs any re-engineering... it's a remarkable piece on its own.
However, "back-in-the-day", before the short-stroked '73 took over the "fast action" title, several world championships were won with both Rossi and original mdl '92s. It held its own against the slightly faster 1894 Marlin, mainly because of the dreaded "Marlin Jam."
Yes, I still shoot cowboy, mainly in the Frontiersman category with a pair of 1851s, an 1860 Henry and 1878 Colt coach gun, I also 3-gun, shoot Wild Bunch (1911, '97 pump and for me, a custom Marlin shooting a ACP length 45Colt), and have dabbled in Lever action Silhouette.
I've shot PPC and the old American Standard Course pistol competitions... tried Steel Challenge and most of the shotgun sports... sorta a shooting version of the "jack of all trades, master of none!"
Every game has its set of rules... I haven't yet found one that I haven't found a rule that I dislike. However, few that are so serious that I won't participate. People, on the other hand, are an entirely different matter. But, even as I'm generally fun-loving and count myself as one that gets along with anyone... I can be a contrarian... look down your nose at my costuming, I'll kick your kiester in... well, if not the shooting competiton, then at having fun! And if that's at your expense, oh, so much the better!
Really, if you like the guns, enjoy challenging yourself (at whatever level), the costuming REQUIREMENTS are so minimal, IMNSHO that using that as an excuse not to participate is totally on you!
Griff, SASS#93
CMSA#93
GUSA#93
NRA Life
(btw, those are Levi 501s under those chaps... not "cowboy" enough? Tough!)
Let me begin by saying that I'm sorry some of seem to have judged SASS (& NCOWS), by a one-time visit or by the actions and attitudes of a few individuals.
I have a perspective of TIME in SASS, having first began cowboy action shooting back in 1985, before there was a "SASS" or "NCOWS". In fact, I'd read about this big Annual cowboy match in CA called the "End of Trail" where they used lever action rifles, single action revolvers and side by side shotguns in 1982... but the article didn't mention where it was held or how to get in touch with the organizers. And the writer of said article turns out to be a egotistical snob of very high order, (after I met him in person and conversed... but, I digress).
So... one day at a local range I run into a fellar with a t-shirt that sez EOT on the back... I talked to him and found out the where when and what-all I needed. And learned that they also held monthly matches at the same venue... also local. So I showed up with my .30-30 (with downloaded lead bullets as per the rules), my 45Colt SAA, & and old coach gun.
1st thing I learned was that they'd outlawed the .30-30 as too many guys couldn't get the concept of "downloading." Let alone using cast boolits! But, my new friend had a spare 1892 Rossi in .38... so I was in.
I was also informed that snap cowboy shirts were not introduced until the 19-teens or some such... well after the 1899 cut-off. (There was no B-Western at the monthlies)... and that my Wranglers were ok for a monthly, but since they weren't introduced until 1947, clearly I understood why they were frowned on... Even modern Levis weren't really very "cowboy" as they define the period, having no belt loops until 1920. Think the 19th century cattle drives.
Mind you the learning and lecturing about all this took place over several months... during which time I was welcome to participate and made to feel a "part of the group." But, then again, I'm sorta forward, and if a topic of conversation is something I know a little about, I'll contribute... otherwise, I'm content to keep my yap shut and learn... like my daddy taught me. And what I didn't have told me at a shoot, I went to the library, bought some historical references and studied the gear, accoutrements and clothing of the 19th century cowboy... now his 20th century counterpart, of which I was personally familiar, having worked as one on two big CA ranches.
Meanwhile I got a Rossi '92 of my own, then a '73, and another shotgun and found about more clubs that were shooting nearby (well, relatively close; they weren't all the way over in AZ)!
I've met clothing Nazi's, gun Nazi's and what have you... I've seen them come, and I've also seen them go. Mainly, on the whole, SASS people are gregarious, fun-loving and welcoming type folks. Many of them are fanatical history buffs... some of them are serious competitors, but the vast majority are probably somewhere between those extremes. (I know I am... I only get to compete a couple times a year, due to work... but my enjoyment of the game is totally predicated on my attitude... others have little influence on whether I have a good time. The only person I shoot against is myself, and if I goof off and kid around, and you don't like it, tough! If you don't like the fact that I try to take exactly 60 seconds to shoot every stage, tough... if you don't like that I'm wearin' a pair of Levi's, boots, a Henley shirt and hat... tough... show me in the rule book where it's not allowed, and I'll change. (I do have the period correct stuff, but I tend to save 'em for annual or other big matches where folks from other clubs are around...) sometimes, they're not appropriate for the weather... Texas summers can get a tad warmish for such.
I founded the club I mainly shoot with in 1991, and helped run it until 1995, then took a hiatus from "pedestrian" shooting and concentrated on mounted shooting until around 2001. When I went back, my club had moved locations (I still got the newsletter and followed along with the parties involved), but not one of club officers had been participating when I took my absence... When I signed up they questioned my SASS #, even my club membership claim (Life)... The six of us that started the club voted that our first meeting! However, there were a couple of shooters there that had at least HEARD of the founding 6, and one shooter that remembered me.
Very few shooters in any competition stick with that single form of competition for extended periods... Many of those that were there in 2001 are no longer competing in SASS. One couple has moved to starting a venue dedicated to 3-Gun... others have moved to Cowboy Lever Silhouette, etc.
One reason you probably won't find many dedicated CAS shooters here-bouts, is that the '92 is not a vey good competition gun... practical and sustaining as it may be, it doesn't take well to being re-engineered into a fast acting "race-gun". Not that it really needs any re-engineering... it's a remarkable piece on its own.
However, "back-in-the-day", before the short-stroked '73 took over the "fast action" title, several world championships were won with both Rossi and original mdl '92s. It held its own against the slightly faster 1894 Marlin, mainly because of the dreaded "Marlin Jam."
Yes, I still shoot cowboy, mainly in the Frontiersman category with a pair of 1851s, an 1860 Henry and 1878 Colt coach gun, I also 3-gun, shoot Wild Bunch (1911, '97 pump and for me, a custom Marlin shooting a ACP length 45Colt), and have dabbled in Lever action Silhouette.
I've shot PPC and the old American Standard Course pistol competitions... tried Steel Challenge and most of the shotgun sports... sorta a shooting version of the "jack of all trades, master of none!"
Every game has its set of rules... I haven't yet found one that I haven't found a rule that I dislike. However, few that are so serious that I won't participate. People, on the other hand, are an entirely different matter. But, even as I'm generally fun-loving and count myself as one that gets along with anyone... I can be a contrarian... look down your nose at my costuming, I'll kick your kiester in... well, if not the shooting competiton, then at having fun! And if that's at your expense, oh, so much the better!
Really, if you like the guns, enjoy challenging yourself (at whatever level), the costuming REQUIREMENTS are so minimal, IMNSHO that using that as an excuse not to participate is totally on you!
Griff, SASS#93
CMSA#93
GUSA#93
NRA Life
(btw, those are Levi 501s under those chaps... not "cowboy" enough? Tough!)