handloading copper based bullets

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9x80Drilling
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handloading copper based bullets

Post by 9x80Drilling »

I've posted a more thorough question on ranchdog's lee-loader forum, but I thought a quick post here might generate some interest, too.

For the sake of experimentation, I've tried two Barnes .45 copper bullets in reloads in my Rossi. Groups are giant, as in all over the paper. Hornady XTPs, both 250 gr standard and .240 gr magnums group perfectly fine for my hunting needs. I have yet to try the Hornady copper-based bullets, either factory or reloaded.

Do any of you have anything to share about successes or failures when trying copper bullets, reloaded for otherwise accurate rifles?

Thanks.
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Re: handloading copper based bullets

Post by donhuff »

Are you talking about gas checked bullets ?
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9x80Drilling
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Re: handloading copper based bullets

Post by 9x80Drilling »

donhuff, not gas checked. "Solid" copper, as in Barnes X type.
I've had really good success loading and shooting 8mm .323" 180 grainers in my 8x57r drilling and 9.3mm .366" 250 grainers in my 9.3x74r drilling, killing several elk, mule deer, and antelope.
My 9x80r drilling, my Rossi .45 Colt, and my .30-30 insert barrel that fits in my 20 gauge Ruger Red Label don't group copper bullets for beans. I actually see some high-pressure signs with reloads well below 10% reduced from published loads.
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mr surveyor
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Re: handloading copper based bullets

Post by mr surveyor »

Personally, I've never had the need nor desire to load solid copper bullets, but I do understand the issues surrounding the need for such in some areas of the country/world. Out of some interest in the procedure itself, backed only by a very limited knowledge of "metallurgy" (very limited), I've only imagined that the projectile itself should be sized to just a little more than bore diameter - not groove diameter ... and that the bearing surface is much more critical for flight stabilization than may be in lead core bullets.

As a 69 year old "lifetime rookie" I'm certainly not offering advise - just understanding things like this seem to be becoming more important now.


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Re: handloading copper based bullets

Post by Archer »

Here are some thoughts, worth at least what you paid for them...

1) As you are no doubt aware from your question there are at least two forms of lead free bullets.
a. Barnes solid copper X types
b. Hornady solid gilding metal types (GMX or whatever they are calling them now.)
c. Been a while since I've seen them and never seen them for handgun calibers but there used to be some solid or two piece bronze bullets from a couple manufacturers back in the day.

It's possible that the gilding metal may work better with your rifle than the solid copper.

2) Some rifles don't like the first few bullets run down a completely clean bore.

2a) Once the bore has been 'seasoned' with a particular bullet material be it jacketed or lead or solid copper some rifles don't seem to like switching the material riding down the bore.

2c) You may need to use a variety of cleaning materials and/or multiple applications to get leading, copper fouling, powder fouling or multiple layers of %@*&$ out of your barrel. I got enough crud out of an old Winchester, that was in pristine condition especially down the bore, with one of the reverse plating systems that I'm leery of running raw lead bullets out the barrel.

3) Some of these rifles may have bores that are less smooth than others. Tool marks, particularly sharp edges, potentially constrictions where sights are installed or where barrel bands or hangers are attached to the barrel can be a problem. Lapping or fire lapping the barrel can smooth out some of these imperfections or constrictions and MIGHT lead to less metal fouling from the projectiles.

4) The pure copper projectiles may require specific loading data that's different from traditional bullets.

5) Barnes has made several changes over the years to their copper bullet lines, they have changed alloys and added grooves in the bullets to change the bearing surface in the barrel most of this has been done with the idea of trying to limit copper fouling but it may also adjust the CG somewhat. Since these bullets are a solid monolithic metal that's less dense than standard lead bullets they tend to be longer for the same weight. This may require them to be spun up faster than the shorter denser bullets in order to stabilize them. The Rossi twist rate may require them to be pushed faster than practical.
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Re: handloading copper based bullets

Post by Archer »

Might try reducing the weight from 250 and 240 to 180 and 200.
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Re: handloading copper based bullets

Post by 9x80Drilling »

Thanks for your points archer. I will investigate how they might be affecting my accuracy issues. As I check them off, I hope to have something of interest to add here on the forum.
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