357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

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Johnnyjr
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357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by Johnnyjr »

What do you think about the 158 gr cast bullets for white tail deer hunt. About how many yards do you suggest..And this will be a round nose as they feed better..
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by Reese-Mo »

There's a Catch-22 with cast bullets for hunting, especially in lower power cartridge selections.

You'll need RNFP bullets. And they'll need to be fairly hard, like Brinell 15 or higher, in order to avoid leading at the velocities you'd want to hunt with, and get any sort of bullet deformation in the deer. Or, if softer bullets are used for better deformation, they'll need to have gas checks.

Its not like softer Brinell 12-14 bullets won't work, or that harder ones won't work if driven slower, but you'll need to place shots perfectly, nothing at all marginal, and the distances will need to be relatively short.

On the other hand.... a jacketed bullet can be run up to the limit of the cartridge in a '92. And, you can get a hollow point, and nice deformation, while maintaining feeding. A .357mag isn't exactly a top choice for whitetail, but... the .44-40, with black powder has killed plenty of deer, although hunters and hunting was a bit different back in the .44-40's popular day. I'd still seek out some jacketed bullets to load up.
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by runfiverun »

I routinely use 158gr. soft cast [like 10 BHN] bullets in my lever rifle.
maybe not at 1800 fps, but 1600 is easily doable.
I don't run any of my hunting lever rifles that fast 1400 is more my wheel house, and 100yds. is my range with open sights.
don't matter if it's a 308, 30-30, or a 32-20 about 100 yds is it.

a scope and flatter shooting rifle gets me to 300yds. with 100% first shot confidence.
but a 158gr. RNFP will easily put 2 holes in a 200lb. deer as long as you don't put it in the butthole.
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by GasGuzzler »

RNFP works better and should feed fine.
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by Johnnyjr »

Got some 180 gr. Coated bullets. And using
Blue dot,they shoot. Going to send a few over the chronograph to see what the velocity is.
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by BryanAustin »

Reese-Mo wrote:A .357mag isn't exactly a top choice for whitetail, but... the .44-40, with black powder has killed plenty of deer, although hunters and hunting was a bit different back in the .44-40's popular day.
The 44-40 started life as a 1,325fps black powder load. Considered very accurate in it's day, a shooter could place a 10 shot group inside 4" at 110 yards...and Winchester considered it "effective" from 300 to 500 yards.
John Kort constantly hit steel javelina at 300 meters at the Ridgeway range in Pa. with (full) black powder loads. When the shooter does his homework, the 44-40, loaded with a mid-range smokeless rifle powder, can make 8" groups at 200 yards while retaining an impact velocity of 900 to 950 fps.

To add to....
High Velocity History
Winchester's 44-40 W.H.V.
  • 1903-1919 started the High Velocity offerings @ 1,500fps for the Winchester Model 92'.
  • 1917/1918 data shows 18,000 cup to 20,000 cup "Service Pressures"
  • 1920-1941 finished the saga with High Velocity loads at 1,570fps @ 22,000cup. Although the WHV was reported seen as late as 1945, I believe the last published offering was 1938.
Available for nearly 45 years but yet so little is known.

Manufactured specifically for the Winchester 92'
EmbeddedImage (14).jpg
Note: Not for pistols or the Winchester 73'
EmbeddedImage (13).jpg
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by Johnnyjr »

But I ain't got no 44/40 lol
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by BryanAustin »

Johnnyjr wrote:But I ain't got no 44/40 lol
LOL, get one +guns

However, the 357 will do fine.

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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by Archer »

3 or 5 years ago I posted a link to a thread with some of those images. At that time I think Winchester catalogued one load for .44-40 that they listed at 1190 FPS at the muzzle. Knowing Winchester it probably averages something more like 1100 FPS.

Winchester supposidly offered a HV smokeless load 'for the '92 action' some time in the late 1980s and early 1990s when they started reissuing the 92s. A friend of mine got one of them and a case of the ammo around that time. He claimed he had to sign a release for the ammo that he would not use it in any weaker action a-la Winchester 73 or Colt SAA for example.

I'm pretty happy with my .44 Mags that will get me that 1600 FPS out of the rifles with a projectile that's 20% heavier pretty easy and I don't have to deal with lubricating the brass for reloading, or have any concern that the bullets are going to wind up in a firearm of 'lesser strength'.
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by BryanAustin »

Archer wrote:3 or 5 years ago I posted a link to a thread with some of those images. At that time I think Winchester catalogued one load for .44-40 that they listed at 1190 FPS at the muzzle. Knowing Winchester it probably averages something more like 1100 FPS.

Winchester supposedly offered a HV smokeless load 'for the '92 action' some time in the late 1980s and early 1990s when they started reissuing the 92s. A friend of mine got one of them and a case of the ammo around that time. He claimed he had to sign a release for the ammo that he would not use it in any weaker action a-la Winchester 73 or Colt SAA for example.

I'm pretty happy with my .44 Mags that will get me that 1600 FPS out of the rifles with a projectile that's 20% heavier pretty easy and I don't have to deal with lubricating the brass for reloading, or have any concern that the bullets are going to wind up in a firearm of 'lesser strength'.
Winchester never "offered" the HV loads after 1938. Winchester used a "bulky" "Sharpshooter" rifle powder from the 1920's to the 1960's. Winchester then switched to a pistol ball powder of which the velocity was advertised at 1,310fps, then switched to a flake pistol powder in 1979. 1979 is when the velocity dropped from 1,300fps down to 1,190fps. All I could get from a 20" barrel was 1,025fps. Not to be confused with the low recoil 800fps cowboy loads.

Remington continued to offer HV loads well into the 1980's BUT they were not the HV loads of pre-1945 when rifle powders were used. Remington also stated that their post 1945 loads were "safe for all revolvers and rifles".

Winchester used Dupont No. 2 smokeless powder from 1895 till the early 1930's...no later than 31'. Winchester used Sharpshooter in the new HV loads in 1903, then used Sharpshooter in both HV and normal loads till 1958. Winchester started using ball powder as early as 1949 until switching to a flattened ball in 1958 to 1978, then flake from 1979 to present. Respectively, black powder loads started at 1,325fps, dropped to 1,300 with smokeless then slightly up to 1,310, then down to 1,190fps.

Handloading was the cat's meow with Sharpshooter powder ranging from normal loads, and up to 1,720fps with a 200gr lead bullet (1,680fps with a JSP).

Take a look here at the...
44-40 Smokeless Powder Transition Years

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