357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by BryanAustin »

I decided to post the following separate.

for the 44-40
Sharpshooter powder was available to handloaders and they showed the following loads for both normal and High Velocity.

1937 Hercules Sharpshooter
200gr JSP
  • 14gr - 1,260 fps
  • 17.3gr - 1,505 fps @ 14,000 cup
  • 19.6gr - 1,680 fps @ 20,000 cup
200gr Lead
  • 15gr - 1,350 fps
  • 18gr - 1,580 fps @ 15,200 cup
  • 20gr - 1,720 fps @ 20,000 cup
Sharpe's 1937 handloading manual shows the following for revolvers

Revolver
  • 200gr Lead, 16.8gr, 905fps @ 15,000cup
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by Johnnyjr »

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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by HarryAlonzo »

I’m with Archer. As much as I like to go retro, 44 Mag and Spl does better than 44-40 without the concerns about firearm safety. I have read that 44-40 brass has a tendency to crumple while hand loading. Still, if I run across one of those Spanish El Tigres in good shape for a deal, I will be sorely tempted.

Regards the OP question about 357 performance on deer, I am utterly clueless.
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by BryanAustin »

HarryAlonzo wrote:...the concerns about firearm safety. I have read that 44-40 brass has a tendency to crumple while hand loading. Still, if I run across one of those Spanish El Tigres in good shape for a deal, I will be sorely tempted.

Regards the OP question about 357 performance on deer, I am utterly clueless.
I don't want to trample all over Johny's 357 post but I will keep replying to the 44-40 information.

This is the exact "mis-information" I am talking about. With a Rossi M92, there are no safety concerns....geeesh, it's available in a 44 Magnum for goodness sakes!!

Case crumpling, etc is caused by folks that don't know what they are doing or forget what they are doing. Out of thousands and thousands of handloads, I have crunched less than a half a dozen because I forgot what I was doing. I even posted such information on the 44-40 website. The information is there....you can lead a horse to water but ya can't make him drink it!!!

Crimping/Crumpled/Buckled Case Issues?


There was also some published load data by Hercules in 1995 and again by Alliant 2005 and even included in Lee Precision's 44-40 reloading dies about using 23.5gr of Reloder 7 with a 240gr lead bullet. The shooter can enjoy the 1,200fps it produces at less than SAAMI max pressures. That is 10% to 20% higher performance than with any other published handloads or factory loads, safe plenty for ALL firearms.

I even have that information posted.....
10%-20% Higher Performance In A Winchester 73'........


Now think about that for a few minutes...if you can use 23.5gr with a 240gr bullet...............

Oh I forgot to include the deer hunt with 25gr of Reloder 7 and the 240gr lead bullet, used in my Marlin 1894CB

Although it kind of looks like a large rabbit, he never took a step!
2017 Deer Hunt, 44-40 240gr Hornady SWC-HP
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by Archer »

The concern is not producing a hot round that is too much for a 92 Rossi.

The concern is producing +P ammo that is safe in a Rossi but not so much in one of those other designs that is not as robust.

With regards to the .44 Mag, ANY standard .44 Magnum load should be safe for my 92s, my Winchester 94, my friend's Marlin 94, My Colt Kodiak, the half dozen friends I know with Smith 29s and 629s, the guy with the Anaconda or the two or three guys with Ruger .44 mag revolvers or the Ruger .44 Carbine. In other words any gun marked for the .44 Mag will be safe for the .44 Mag and assuming it feeds will also handle .44 Special. The one exception to the rule is the gas operated Desert Eagle and the only reason for concern there (beyond the .44 Special feeding issue) is that you don't want to use non jacketed bullets in that gun if you want to keep the gas system operational.

+P .44-40 isn't something I want to find put in original or replica SAA Colts, Schofields, 73s, or anything other than the 92 or 94 designs.

Same basic concerns apply to .45 Colt 'magnum' level loads.

Almost the same concerns apply to .45-70 Govt with the exception that I personally don't know anyone who has a 'weak' action .45-70 but I DO know at least a couple folks who have Siamese Mauser based .45-70s and might know one who has a Ruger No 1. I don't want their 'magnum' level ammo in my 1886 or 1895.

Yeah we ALL mark our warm loads and there's never any chance of a hot round getting picked up and stuck in the wrong gun...

I have a policy regarding ammo that comes to me as 'Dead Guy Stuff' or that is donated from sources without providence. It gets disassembled for components. The gunpowder gets tossed the primer gets punched out and replaced and the brass gets resized and inspected before it gets reused.

As for .44-40 vs. .44 Mag.
I already own six .44 Mag firearms. I don't own any .44-40 firearms. While there's one or two .44-40s I wouldn't mind owning that aren't available in .44 Mag I don't know as I have any reason to get into yet another caliber. IF I were looking at a rifle (or handgun for that matter) that was available in BOTH .44-40 and .44 Mag I can't see any reason to get the .44-40 version over the .44 Mag.

Yes, I load both bottle necked and straight walled cartridges and I obviously use both carbide and steel dies.
Given the choice of loading a straight walled round using a carbide die vs. a not quite straight walled round using a steel die and having to lube the cases and remove the lube after sizing I'll tend to go with the straight walled cartridge. Yes it may not be that much of a difference but it IS yet another operation.
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by BryanAustin »

Archer wrote:The concern is not producing a hot round that is too much for a 92 Rossi.

The concern is producing +P ammo that is safe in a Rossi but not so much in one of those other designs that is not as robust.

Same basic concerns apply to .45 Colt 'magnum' level loads.

Almost the same concerns apply to .45-70 Govt with the exception that I personally don't know anyone who has a 'weak' action .45-70 but I DO know at least a couple folks who have Siamese Mauser based .45-70s and might know one who has a Ruger No 1. I don't want their 'magnum' level ammo in my 1886 or 1895.

As for .44-40 vs. .44 Mag.
I already own six .44 Mag firearms. I don't own any .44-40 firearms. While there's one or two .44-40s I wouldn't mind owning that aren't available in .44 Mag I don't know as I have any reason to get into yet another caliber. IF I were looking at a rifle (or handgun for that matter) that was available in BOTH .44-40 and .44 Mag I can't see any reason to get the .44-40 version over the .44 Mag.

Yes, I load both bottle necked and straight walled cartridges and I obviously use both carbide and steel dies.
Given the choice of loading a straight walled round using a carbide die vs. a not quite straight walled round using a steel die and having to lube the cases and remove the lube after sizing I'll tend to go with the straight walled cartridge. Yes it may not be that much of a difference but it IS yet another operation.
Correct, a hot 44-40 load should be treated no different than any other beefed up 45 Colt, 45-70 or any others.

Winchester also manufactured a 45-70 300gr W.H.V. load. It produced 1,883 fps

Wait till you have someone with several different 44-40 rifles that all have different bore and chamber sizes. Not too common today as far as current manufactured rifles are concerned. Most are .429. It's the dies and bellowing the case mouth that kicks butt when not paying attention. Resizing a case that accepts a .425 JSP and forgetting, then trying to stuff a lead .430 bullet will make ya real mad...LOL


The 357 is a simple cartridge to load. Pumping out round after round on a progressive press with carbide dies is the cat's meow!!! Aside from the carbide die....the same can be done with the 44-40 when you have all your ducks in a row.
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by GasGuzzler »

The .44-40 not .429 Magnum do not suit me. There is way too much bore variance in .44-40 firearms to cast for and .45 Colt can do anything the .429 can. The .357 is fun and reliable, easy and cheap to cast for...and is not in the top ten of deer calibers for me.

I also would not hunt with a round nose bullet. I would stay inside 120 yards with a .357.
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by BryanAustin »

GasGuzzler wrote:The .44-40 not .429 Magnum do not suit me. There is way too much bore variance in .44-40 firearms to cast for and .45 Colt can do anything the .429 can. The .357 is fun and reliable, easy and cheap to cast for...and is not in the top ten of deer calibers for me.

I also would not hunt with a round nose bullet. I would stay inside 120 yards with a .357.
I highlighted a couple of areas in the quote to referance.

There are defiantly bore and chamber variations in the 44-40 line BUT if you only own ONE rifle, it only has one measurement.....and once you figure it out, you only use one load ;-)

I never messed with my Marlin 357 to find that sweet load. I do not have an accurate load for it yet. As it stands right now I would not hunt with it past 50 yards even with a scope. Maybe these is someone out that has a great load for their use.
I do like my Marlin 357 (left), just never had enough interest to do anything with it.
23380398_819815621532356_556779543456892490_n.jpg
The 45 Colt can not compete with the 44-40 at 300 yards...and the 44-40 can be loaded with a 240gr bullet with a published load that actually increases the performance by 10% to 20% over the original 200gr performance. I had great results at 100 yards with that load using a Hornady .429 SWC-HP. Deer never took a step at 65 yards...of course, he was a little rabbit though!!!
Img_2423.jpg
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However, the Uberti Winchester 73' is my favorite.
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And here we are shooting a few different rangings working on shooter skills, which I so greatly lack, and POA's for the various ranges marked.

25, 50, 75, 150, 200 and 225 yard VIDEO
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Re: 357 for deer out of the Rossi 92

Post by Deleted User 5041 »

Before I knew better, I hit a buck in the boiler room with a 125gn .357 jacketed hollow point moving at 1600fps. He crumpled and died right where I hit him.

This year I'll be hunting with 180gn TC bullets with a 12-15 BHN. When I'm out of these, I'm interested to test the 158gn version.

I'll take a shot out to 100 yards, but I'm not likely to get a shot that far in the woods I've been hunting.
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