Rossi Rifleman

recognizing that a 405 gr bullet is nothing to sneeze at with ANY velocity, my sone and I are both looking at the 45-70 for piggies. My son wants to stick with the marlin, I am more price effected.

since I have no access to a pressure gun, are buffalo bore and similar loads too warm for the Rio Grande, or should i stick with the middle of the road loads?

I'm killing some pretty good size hogs with my 290-grain 45 Colt at the velocities offered by the 300-grain 45-70 Gov't factory loads. Same with my 300-grain 44 Mag bullet. Personally, that is what I would shoot. Something like the Federal or Winchester 300-grain offering.

Hogs aren't that hard to kill. Take the air out of them with a heart/lung shot and they run out of steam real quick. They have a lot of muscle mass that is fueled by oxygen. Deflate them and they are down quick.

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twobitokie wrote:...are buffalo bore and similar loads too warm for the Rio Grande, or should i stick with the middle of the road loads?

If they are not above 35.0 KPSI, I don't see why not.


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Ranch Dog wrote:

twobitokie wrote:...are buffalo bore and similar loads too warm for the Rio Grande, or should i stick with the middle of the road loads?

If they are not above 35.0 KPSI, I don't see why not.


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I think Buffalo Bore & Garrett are quite upfront & explicit about what guns should or should not host their +P & +P+ ammo.
They lab test their ammo exhaustively before putting it on the market.
They don't like personal injury law suits .......PI suits generally have a bad effect on the profit & loss statement.
I think the stuff is too darned expensive.......well over $50 for a box of 20 rounds of 45-70 ......give me a break!
I'm bone lazy to the core but I'll go to the loading bench before I'll pay that kind of money for ammo.
I hand load for my 416 Remington Magnum.........$100 - $160 a box (20 rounds) !!!!!!! off the shelf!!!
My Guide Guns like the HSM 430 grain lead "hard cast" (Brinell Hardness Level 25) "Bear Load" ammo and I got a bunch of it on sale for $25 a box.
The HSM stuff is plenty potent ammo.........I don't know what chamber pressures the HSM "Bear Load" ammo generates but my GGs & Pedersoli 86/71 like it & it is relatively easy on the shoulder.

Ranch Dog wrote:I'm killing some pretty good size hogs with my 290-grain 45 Colt at the velocities offered by the 300-grain 45-70 Gov't factory loads. Same with my 300-grain 44 Mag bullet. Personally, that is what I would shoot. Something like the Federal or Winchester 300-grain offering.

Hogs aren't that hard to kill. Take the air out of them with a heart/lung shot and they run out of steam real quick. They have a lot of muscle mass that is fueled by oxygen. Deflate them and they are down quick.

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I love that, Deflate them and they are down pretty quick.

I have used the remington SP 405G rounds in my rio grand and have not had a problem. They are pretty light compared to what the gun is capable of using. Just food for thought, if you are thinking about reloading at all you could have a single stage setup for the 45-70 for probably less than the price of 100 rounds of buffalo bore. Reloading was the best firearms decision I have made to date, I can now afford to shoot agian. Ranch Dog helped me out with a 405G cast bullet load that I am having great success with so far.

How hot.....very hot!!....but safe.
I have 4 boxes of Barnes Original 300 grain Flat Nose bullets I'll be reloading the Starline brass (from the HSM ammo) with.
There are 45-70 loads from the 1895 levergun section of the Barnes Manual #4 (I have all the Barnes manuals) with Starline brass & the 300 grain Barnes Original that generate close to 3900 ft-lbs of muzzle energy.
If that ain't hot I don't know what is.

Not intending to douse anyone's fire, but since I got a RG .45-70, I have become a lot less preoccupied with how hot I can load for this piece. It has become a very satisfying and accurate piece with 300 gr. and 405 gr. loads in the trap door to mid Marlin lever loading ranges. A 300 gr. cast bullet moving along at 1450 -1600 fps, and 405 gr. loads at 1400 - 1520 fps are potent enough to get most jobs done. It's much easier on my shoulder during a range session as well. Ranchdog has indicated, a 300 gr. load at a moderate velocity is effective on feral hogs.

I recall reading where writer Craig Boddington had an article published about him taking a Buffalo in Colorado with an H&R Buffalo Classic .45-70 using a 385 gr. cast bullet at around 1,600 fps. I recall the range being nearly 200 yards. That load was hot enough.

Wayne Boscowics, owner of Foggy Mountain Guiding Services advocates that any handgun of at least .41 magnum, using at least a 200 gr. bullet at 1000 fps or better, "is a thorough ticket-puncher for any black bear". In this instance I believe he was talking about stand hunting, but it puts things in perspective.

I can tell you that, if you can put the sneak on a eastern NM antelope, to close the distance to 150 yds, a 350 gr. cast load at about 1520 fps will get there soon enough and put a pronghorn down without messing up a bunch of meat - or leaving a mark on a shirtsleeved shoulder from a Handi-Rifle.

Well, some folks have to have the highest horsepower diesel 1-ton pickup and never haul anything more than a couple 2x4's and plywood too.

Understandably some push for the upper limits of the designed pressure spectrum for good purpose like anchoring a moose or grizzly to minimize touring the countryside to retrieve game or to stay alive. I too am pursuing hotter-than-SAA 45LC loads for my Puma 92 to be an effective 100yd deer slayer. But well within the design limits of the firearm/cartridge.

It always puzzles me why some folks just have to push a reasonable firearm/cartridge to what seems like ridiculous performance levels. Doesn't it make more sense to pick up a Ruger #1 in .458 or .577 double gun than to make a godzilla killer out of a nice 45-70? Maybe I'm just not smart enough to understand the motivation of others. Or, maybe I do understand what's causing it.........

Jeff

Rooster59 wrote:Well, some folks have to have the highest horsepower diesel 1-ton pickup and never haul anything more than a couple 2x4's and plywood too.

Understandably some push for the upper limits of the designed pressure spectrum for good purpose like anchoring a moose or grizzly to minimize touring the countryside to retrieve game or to stay alive. I too am pursuing hotter-than-SAA 45LC loads for my Puma 92 to be an effective 100yd deer slayer. But well within the design limits of the firearm/cartridge.

It always puzzles me why some folks just have to push a reasonable firearm/cartridge to what seems like ridiculous performance levels. Doesn't it make more sense to pick up a Ruger #1 in .458 or .577 double gun than to make a godzilla killer out of a nice 45-70? Maybe I'm just not smart enough to understand the motivation of others. Or, maybe I do understand what's causing it.........

Jeff

"Different strokes for different folks"......and if I might add the corollary AS LONG AS WE DO IT SAFELY.
Different people look for different things in their firearms owning/shooting experience.
Some want a gun that will knock over a pig or deer at 40 yards........PERIOD.
Some want to tinker with sights, loads etc.
Just like me & the guys I grew up with and our power cars.......a VW would have done the job but there was something about the roar of a 455 Rocket motor that "turned my crank".

No disagreement from me on any of the comments. There was a time, and not so long ago, that I'd withstand some black & blue shoulder to push the right cartridge to its limits - for the horsepower rush. In my previous post, I was trying to respond directly to the question that started the thread. As reinforced by Ranchdog, for the purpose of dumping pigs, a "middle of the road" load should do fine. I am deriving much enjoyment from my first lever .45-70 Rossi, and it responds well to reasonably lighter loads, and i can spend more time on the range that way. I can see the other side of the load issue as well.