new .44 mag and a place to start load development

[sheepherder]

Purchased a 44/77 Ruger and a S & W M29.
I understand they shoot jacketed bullets better than lead ones. Also have heard you can use lead especially if subsonic.

Accuracy and leading are the issue. True in the groups experience?

I selected three different weight bullets to start with and have 4 different pistol powders: Trail boss, Unique, True blue and IMR 4227. I know the IMR 4227 is for magnum loads.

Question, other than the obvious to start at the suggested level in the 'books' does anyone care to share their loads for these powders so I can narrow the number of permutations of powder to test?

I am not interested in hunting loads, rather loads to shoot for a couple hours at the range. My experience with True Blue over Trail Boss is that the light loads with little powder are more accurate than the Trail Boss with a much fuller case. I'll be using Sierra bullets in 240, 250 and 300 grains.

Has anyone every run a regression analysis of velocity, powder burn rate, bullet weight and powder charge against MOA accuracy? Seems like it should have been done; was wondering what had the most effect on terminal performance (accuracy).

Thanks for the thoughts,

[Ohio3Wheels]

<snip< Seems like it should have been done; was wondering what had the most effect on terminal performance (accuracy).

Thanks for the thoughts,

The guy steering the gun

Not surprised with the TB results my impressions through 3 cans is that it's more a cast boolit powder. I tried a few jacketed in the 45 Colts (Black Hawk and '92) and the 45-70 wasn't happy with any load I came up with. Not doing much with the 44 magt these days as I only have my one Contender barrel and it's the 44mag/shot barrel.

Make smoke,

[Ohio357MagFan]

Sheepherder,

I think you should try the polymer coated cast lead bullets, I'm just starting to try them and LOVE them. From all I'm understanding and learning, bullet fit and hardness are still important when shooting polymer coated but not nearly as important as traditionally lubed cast bullets. In the 44 magnum I tried both Penn bullets coated .431 and Bayou bullets .430 and they both shot the same, of course everything I was shooting was 50 feet at the most and they were all hitting the milk jugs and water balloons just fine. Only thing I noticed different about the .431 bullets is I needed to bell the case more before seating the bullet.

I really really like Bayou bullets 215 grain .44 bullet for plinking with 9-9.5 grains unique. Great mid range power load, it's not weak (it's same ballistics as a .41 magnum and that's no weakling) but the kids shot it and from the light 5 lb 16 inch carbine the kids were able to handle and enjoy it. When your at 9 gr unique you'll be in the low 1300's and when your at 9.5 youll be in the high 1300s for speed with the 215 gr Bayou bullet

[bamboozler]

Anything coming out of a 44 magnum is a hunting load. lol

Until you gain experience at handloading I'd leave the cast/lead bullets out for a while (or forever) or your guns will be a leaded up mess. Use jacketed, stay under the max. charge and things will be safe, fun, accurate.

[runfiverun]

if your gun has a problem shooting cast bullets it's a gun problem not a metal composition problem.
try 8.5-9.5 grs of the true blue or unique under the 240's. either cast or expensive your choice.

I have done work ups with both the 44 and 45 colt all the way from clay's [about 850 fps] up through 2400 [over 1600 fps] with at least a dozen powders along the way.
all I got was more speed no worse and no better accuracy.
but that was with home made plain base cast bullets that were around 11 bhn so I doubt you'd be interested.

[sheepherder]

Thanks for the note runfiverun
I have been searching the web for info on 250 grain Seirra JHP and load data. I see lots of cast data for 250 gr. lead but not jacketed. I understand they tend to push the lead a little slower so loads for lead vs. jacketed different.

I have seen 265 grain JHP. Simple minded place to start to load 250 JHP is half way between 250 and 265 grain.

Any experience with jacketed 250 grain? Was you point about cast (bullets) and expensive about lead verses jacketed?

Thanks for the adivce
Sheepherder

[bamboozler]

Thanks for the note runfiverun
I have been searching the web for info on 250 grain Seirra JHP and load data. I see lots of cast data for 250 gr. lead but not jacketed. I understand they tend to push the lead a little slower so loads for lead vs. jacketed different.

I have seen 265 grain JHP. Simple minded place to start to load 250 JHP is half way between 250 and 265 grain.

Any experience with jacketed 250 grain? Was you point about cast (bullets) and expensive about lead verses jacketed?

Thanks for the adivce
Sheepherder

250gr jacketed 44 mag bullet is an odd weight to chase. For jacketed 240gr is great for handgun and rifle for plinking and hunting if I need more then step up to a 300gr jacketed. The SD on both is excellent and above average compared to other handgun calibers. Most of my loads use H110.

Here is a free manual that may help: https://archive.org/details/Modern_Relo ... ichard_Lee

[Ohio357MagFan]

Sheepherder,

I have not personally loaded jacketed 250 gr for the 44 magnum but I'm guessing the best results will come with Winchester 296 or H110 powder (both powders are literally identical) in the 22-23 gr ballpark and magnum primer. Always use a magnum primer with those powders. I think you will get best results with the Winchester 296/ H110 twins and jacketed bullets and Alliant 2400 and Standard primer with cast bullet magnum loads. Always use standard primer with 2400 powder

I do have experience loading 23 grains of Wincheter 296 and a Sierra 240 grain JHC bullet and it worked very well in a 6.5 inch Smith & Wesson 629 classic. I loaded those loads back in 1994 and I still have the same jug of WInchester 296 that was purchased back around 1992 and it still works great! I was 16 in 1994 and the Smith and Wesson was my dads gun at the time. The 240 JHC with 23 grains of 296 is very much full power. I recall we also used to load the sierra 180 JHC and recall getting better results with the really light for caliber 180 gr jacketed with Accurate arms number 7. can't recall the charge weight we used though. Back in that era I remember plinking a lot with the jacketed bullets, I don't recall exactly how much they cost but I remember them being reasonable for plinking, most of the jacketed bullets not are just too expensive for plinking, thats where I think the new polymer coated cast bullets shine. I'd still use a jacketed bullet for hunting.

[Ohio3Wheels]

Right now my big bore pistol/riflr experience has been with my rossi/black hawk combo in 45olt. My current intended for hunting load is the lee 454300 thar sized lubed and gas checked weighs in at 315 grns. On top of 23.6 grn of H110 in the 20 inch rossi and 19 grn in the BH I don't expect anything to walk away as long as I do my part. No leading in either gun and there's no doubt when they go off .

Make smoke,

[sheepherder]

Thanks to all who responded----

Am finding out 250 g jacketed is an odd ball bullet for .44 mag.
As a scientist and reading the forum I thought I'd bracket the weights available and see what shot best with what powder.

Did find some 250 gr jacketed data for powders I don't have (AA7 or AA9) Guess I need another bottle of powder.

Loaded two different weights of Unique and IMR 4227 and will test today in 77/44 and M29.

The unique loads out of the Lyman cat. are the same for pistol and rifle. The IMR are heavier for rifle by a couple grains.

The Sierra bullets I am using have a cannelure but it does not really get to the case mouth at the COAL that is recommended. Still crimped the cartridge. Do people out there worry about where the crimp is and if so do they then trim all their new case to match crimp point and cannelure on the bullet? Perhaps I can't see the crimp is really catching the cannelure at it lower edge which is inside the case?

And I thought immunology was complicated - got nothing on the metrics of hand loading