Comparing velocities - .44 Mag R92 w/ 16" and 20" barrels

[williamc]

Earlier this year I switched out my 20" 1892 for the same model with a 16" barrel. I've spent much of the year replacing the sights, tuning up the action and just having a good time plinking.

This weekend I finally got out with my chronograph, and I thought I'd share my results. I know from web research that ballistics for the .44 Magnum tends to top out with a 16" barrel. I tested my 3 most common loads (plinking, moderate, hunting) with both guns.

For the 20" loads, chrono work was done on an 80* day last fall. The work I did this weekend was at 63*.

Plinking .44spl - 200 LRNFP, 4.4gr Hogdon Clays
20" - 933 fps, 16" - 912 fps

Moderate .44spl - 240gr LSWC, 7.0gr Unique
20" - 1083 fps, 16" - 1075 fps

Hunting .44mag - Hornady 265gr Interlock, 21.0gr W296
20" - 1538 fps, 16" - 1529 fps

I learned this weekend (after testing in the 1892) that my plinking load is very sensitive to the position of the powder in the case, so I consider those results suspect. I'm on the lookout for anew powder for medium strength .44spl loads, as Clays doesn't fill the case enough, and I'd prefer not to use fillers. Too bad, as I have 2 lbs. unopened, and pistol powder is nowhere to be found in Atlanta.

I'm no expert, but it seems that the colder temps more than explain the velocity loss in the 16" barrel. At least for loads put together for revolvers, it would seem that the 4" loss in barrel length has little to no impact on velocities.

Your results may vary, but I thought this was interesting.

[akuser47]

Thanks great info. I appreciate you posting it up for us.

[AJMD429]

I think the main differences ('advantages') for the longer barrels are:

• a) more magazine capacity (seldom would be an issue unless the Indians are attacking)
  b) longer sight radius (a slight issue, but better sights can compensate somewhat)
  c) different balance point (20-24" may be better for 'range' use but 16-20" better for 'field' use)

If I had to part with all but one barrel length, I'd keep the 16" ones.

[Moon Tree]

Thanks for the report and your work.

[Archer]

Thanks for the report.
I've looked at this subject before and like AJMD429 I think the advantages in a longer barrel are pretty much the way he listed.

I suspect the temp difference you state, as you say, probably more than compensates for the velocity difference BUT as you state that's probably not the end of the variable variations especially since you noticed the positional velocity variations of some of the ammo.

Another comment, it appears only your top load is a true .44 Mag load. The other two I'd suspect could be better termed .44 Special or even .44 Russian in a .44 Mag case. When dealing with 'Special' level loads in either the .44 or the .38 in a carbine the benefits of the longer barrel are going to be more shots and longer sight radius not a great heaving increase in performance. That is going to be evident with magnum level loads if at all. (9mm and .45 ACP are in the same 'Special level' class as is the basic .45 Colt loads IMO.)

I've read several articles, web pages and opinions on this subject as well as gone through a lot of load manuals and data including 'studies' where a barrel or two was cut down. Most all of them have the same problems, very small sample sizes, inability to isolate the number of variables and conclusions drawn on limited and often inconsistent results that often aren't supported by the presented data.

I'm always a little leery of stating a general trend based on a small sample size. By the very nature of the expense of firearms and the purchasing process plus the cost of ammo, sample sizes are almost guaranteed to be small.

I think one of my reloading manuals has a reprint of an article listing the velocity of the same ammunition being fired in something like 6 or 12 different .357 revolvers of different manufacturers with I think 4" and 6" barrel lengths. Different guns with the same barrel lengths had velocities that varied rather remarkably.I looked this article up. It is titled 'Why Ballisticians Get Gray' by Dave Andrews printed in the 9th and 12th editions of the Speer manual. It lists barrel lengths from 2.5" to 24" with 3 different variations of .357 Magnum ammunition, 32 different firearms and 9 different manufacturers. Variations with the 125 grain load among the 6" revolvers are as much as 300 FPS! Variations among the SAME manufacturer of the same model with the same barrel length run around 225 FPS. (3 examples each of Colt Python and S&W M19 both show this variation.)

Granted a revolver also has a cylinder gap that with variations will have quite an effect but setting that aside for a moment a given barrel may have differences in internal smoothness, in tooling marks, in the angle of the rifling lead of the lands / freebore, chamber may be tighter or looser, the tools used may be new or may be worn which may result in crisp lands and grooves or brand new out of the box somewhat rounded or pre-worn, Polished? Lapped? deburred? or with machine flash still attached?, Clean or dirty? What's the type of metal and does it have a 'tooth'? how compatible is the steel with the bullet material? What if any lubrication is in the barrel? Then the bolt may fit up tight or loose.

Another factor is how the primer is struck WRT the force and speed of the strike, protrusion of the firing pin plus the shape of the firing pin tip.

I've got my opinions on most of the studies or articles.
My opinion is that the way the gun fits you and the way it handles is probably the most important thing.
A very secondary consideration is that:
All other things being equal (which they never are) Unless the force of the friction of the bullet going down the barrel overcomes the pressure built up behind the bullet you should get an increase in velocity (even if it is small) with a longer barrel.

For me in the lever actions the 20" fits me well handles quickly and easily and balances well. The 24" is nice on the range but doesn't carry or handle quite so quickly. The 16" is so short it feels a bit awkward, might be more handy getting in or out of a vehicle but then so is a 6"-10" revolver.

We need more and better data!

[Zippidydoodah]

22 or is an eye opener in different rifle lengths. Was using a chrono and the shorter 18" barrel had more velocity than the 24" rifle using the same ammo. Whether by chose 26" barrels because it gave them best velocity out of their magnum rounds.most non-magnum rifles get by with 22" barrels. Good trade off with balance, etc.some claim 16" is about max with 357 and 44 mag, 45's so it becomes more preference over fps gain. I personally like the added weight of a longer barrel but do both.

[jdb]

Yep great info William. And you're right about being suspect of the light loads and powder position. That's why a lot of guys use a buffer with it to fill the gap. I think I remember reading where Ranch even used some old mattress stuffing or something as a buffer one time. LOL

But it WORKS and that's what counts. And medium power loads can have the same problem with certain kinds of powders as well. It's always best to keep the powder in place and against the primer for loads that require extreme accuracy and consistency.

Great report. Thanks, and my 16" 92 thanks you! ;~)

[donhuff]

jbd,

If you'll go back and find that thread where RD said he tried the stuffing. He sez that it scared him with wild pressure fluctuations and that he will never do that again. Best I remember, he saw very little difference in pressure using NO filler and different powder positions.

I don't give it a second thought, as I have been reloading sense way back before the web got started, and we never knew about such things.

Probably the best example that I shoot of this is in my 45-70 rio. I use the lee 405gr and 13.5 grs of 800X. I don't think it fills the case to the half way mark. And it shoots great, pointed up or down.

In my 357 I have gotten as low as 2.8gs of tightgroup and didn't notice any problems. I'm sure that I pointed it up sometimes, and down others, while cocking it.

williamc,
You should have gone to the gun show at the expo center this past weekend. There was plenty of pistol powder there. They even had Unique in one pound containers! $27 a lb at one table and $36 at another!

[williamc]

Donhuff, thanks for the heads up. I've come to the conclusion I'll need to go to a local show to find powder.

I'd love to find a single good powder for the 3 pistol cartridges I load for - 44 spl, 9mm (uspsa minor) and 45acp (uspsa major). My buddy loves tightgroup too. That might be a winner.

[Archer]

Unique probably fits pretty well.
It is a rather large flake powder and some find it dirty but it works on a wide range of medium/moderate level rounds.