RG4570 and Cast Bullets

Rossi's latest and past big game rifle based on the 336 frame!
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RG4570 and Cast Bullets

Post by Ranch Dog »

All you wanted to know about cast bullet performance with the RG45-70. This is the results of 6 months work with my three cast bullet designs. I've included the Beartooth 525-grain Pile Driver but only shot three samples of it; however, I am confident in the performance based on my pressure testing work with my bullets against the calculations in QuickLoad.

I have chosen to reload the RG4570 to a max pressure of 35.0K PSI vs. what I and others load the Marlin 1895 to. The RG4570 is not a 1895 clone but a 336 clone and as such does not have the strength in the receiver at the barrel lugs. I'm very comfortable at this level of performance but it is at my own risk. The actual performance calculations are a Pmax of 40.0K and and Nominal Maximum Pressure (NMP) of 35.0K PSI. Pressure, like velocity, experiences a standard deviation with every shot and what the previous statement indicates is the the average pressure will be 35.0K PSI with the deviations contained inside 40.0K PSI. Your use of this information is at your own risk!

The RG4570 is a very accurate rifle. My work with the Hodgdon powders and all the bullets has proven that powder selection is going to be simply a matter of personal choice. Do your normal load work against a couple of suitable powders and make your own choice for your own rifle.

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The above is an example of what I've experienced with the rifle. The three bullets in the target where the Beartooth Pile Drivers at 50-yards (lower right quadrant target). The holes in the cardboard where from my 425-grain bullet in another target that has been removed from the back board.

Whether you shoot these specific bullets or not, the information should allow you to decide which bullet fits your shooting and hunting needs. I've presented the data with graphics below with just about every qualifier you can thing of.

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My formatted data, the data I use, is attached as PDF files. Those files are for reference only, your use is at your own risk! All the bullets where sized to .458" and used with a cartridge overall length of 2.500" which provided positive cartridge feed and chambering. The cases were trimmed using the standard, cataloged Lee Precision Case Length Gauge/Trimmer. These trimmers trim the brass slightly under the SAAMI spec, with any cartridge, which worked out very well for matching the case to the crimp groove. Some might ponder the loss of .005" of cartridge OAL, against that used with the Marlin 1895, but it is immaterial with a case of this size. With my load work, I used PMC brass and CCI 200 Large Rifle primers but any 45-70 brass and Large Rifle primer will provide the same performance.

Finally, the RG4570 has met my expectations as a lightweight carbine for hunting. At the bench, my 7 lb rifle can be brutal on the body. The rifle performed so well in every aspect that I sold my Guide Gun. I just received the latest Deer and Deer Hunting magazine and see that they listed the RG4570 in their five rifle "Hot Picks". I understand why, it is a heck of a rifle at a heck of a value.
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Re: RG4570 and Cast Bullets

Post by Dan 444 »

Michael,

Many thanks for your usual comprehensive analysis. The RD 425gr is my favorite in any 45-70.

Well, that seals it guys, I'm gonna get me a RG4570. I'll let you know how the acquisition/loading/shooting journey goes.

Dan

P.S. Unlike RD, I will NOT be selling my 1895 or 1895G. :D :D
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Re: RG4570 and Cast Bullets

Post by Arktikos »

I missed this one, great post, and thanks Ranch Dog for the detailed analysis! I am thinking on 1400 fps for my Beartooth 525's out to be just the ticket for a close in defense shot to a PO'ed brownie...
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Re: RG4570 and Cast Bullets

Post by pricedo »

Dan 444 wrote:Michael,

Many thanks for your usual comprehensive analysis. The RD 425gr is my favorite in any 45-70.

Well, that seals it guys, I'm gonna get me a RG4570. I'll let you know how the acquisition/loading/shooting journey goes.

Dan

P.S. Unlike RD, I will NOT be selling my 1895 or 1895G. :D :D
If you want a deer hunting running mate for your bear hunting RG in .45-70 I heartily recommend the RG in .30-30 WCF.
After you do your Rossi stuff and spiff it up it'll be the smoothest, most accurate deer rifle you own.
I now also have 2 Rehabilitated Remlin Guide Guns ........a SS and a Blue.
I have completely polished and reworked both of them with custom parts and springs from WW Guns.
The SS has the respectable factory sights and a Leupold Rifleman 2-7x33mm on a solid Burris mount and Warne QD rings and the Blue model has an XS sighting system with another Leupold Rifleman 2-7x33mm again mounted with Warne QD rings for easy iron sight access.
I wouldn't part with either my Rehabilitated Rossis or Rehabilitated Remlins.
I've invested too much of myself in them to ever do that.
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Re: RG4570 and Cast Bullets

Post by Arktikos »

I was looking at the data for the pile driver last night and noticed that to get to nearly 1500fps only needed 34.8gr of RL7. Also noted is the col being shorter than Beartooth's data at 2.500 rather than 2.557. http://www.beartoothbullets.com/open_si ... ght.htm/21 I guess my question is how much difference does the .057 col make in pressure or velocity? The reason I ask is i am wanting to duplicate this load for my guide gun but my col is coming out at 2.541. I had started at approximately 15% (38gr) under Beartooth's max of 44.3gr RL7 but over my questionable chronograph read way too hot at over 1700fps. I do believe my Chrony was in error but since I only am looking for 1400 – 1500fps I guess I need to rethink this after looking at this data.

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Re: RG4570 and Cast Bullets

Post by pricedo »

What I'd like to see and what would provide a powerful tool for determining the optimum powder for a given bullet and gun is a piezoelectric pressure barrel that will graph the pressure vs time curve during the dwell time that the bullet is in the barrel.
It is peak pressure that destroys guns.
It is the area under the pressure time curve that determines the final muzzle velocity of the projectile.
A powder that stays under the threshold peak pressure yet burns at a rate that maximizes the area under the pressure time curve is the optimum powder under the circumstances.
As fancy as some of the internal ballistics programs get they are all dynamic applications of the ideal gas law PV = nRT
I'm not sure whether such an elaborate pressure barrel exists nowadays but it is well within the realm of today's technology.
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