RD's TLC460 Bullets for the RG

[Ranch Dog]

With some of the recent questions that seem to have surfaced concerning the use of the Ranch Dog TLC460 bullet along my inability to find my original notes and a recent hard drive failure on my "shooting" laptop, I decided to go completely back through my work today so that I could post it here. I have also recently received a Lee .458" Lube & Size Kit, a kit that had to be special ordered.

The most common question I receive, both for the Marlin and now the Rossi is: "Will your bullet work in my XXXX at 2.55"?"

The simple answer is "no". The complete answer is that it was never intended to be used at that overall length, it was designed to be used at 2.495" to 2.500".

More on point with this forum, it will not work at those overall lengths in the Rio Grande as a .460" bullet. The Rossi does have a .457" bore so today was spent looking at bullets sized to .458". The good news is that the TLC460 sized to .458 will chamber at 2.500" but nothing longer. Again, my bullet was designed with that length in mind.

Sized to .460", the maximum COAL is considerably shorter. The best you can hope for is 2.417"! Will a .458" work. I sure hope so as it will save me a considerable amount of work. I usually want my bullet to be .015" to .020" over bore diameter but in the case of the RG, I will test it at .458".

All this said, the above is limited to current production molds with the secant ogive. My original TLC460 bullets had a tangent ogive and in 2010 I changed it to the secant to help with the tighter chambers Marlin started cutting after they retooled. Here is how the ogives compare:



From left to right is the "300", "350", and "425". The "300" and the "425" have the newer secant ogive and the nose is actually identical. The "fisheye" of the camera lens and the angle of that lens to the bullets make them look slightly different but they are not. The "350" in the middle is the older version with the tangent ogive. It is rounder in appearance and looks almost exactly like the Hornady 350-grain FP. The "300" is soon to be released so it is not an issue in this conversation but there are older version of both the "350" and "425" with the tangent ogive. Since August of 2010, I have only sold these molds with the secant ogive.

Added: Found the missing notes! When using the tangent ogive bullet in the RG, the max COAL is 2.390!

Lee only offers a .457" Lube and Size Kit as a cataloged item, I personally am not interested in trying it as it is not the proper diameter. A .458" Kit can be special ordered via this link, just place the diameter in the text box. I order quite a few Kits in my testing and the process has become quite simple now that they can be ordered on line. I received a special order last week and it took only 10 calendar days to fill.

A friend of mine wants to buy the throat reamer I ordered for his Remlin 1895 but I'm going to wait until I shoot the bullets at .458" to insure that .001" over bore is adequate.

[Quinc]

Ranch Dog, Do you sell your cast bullets; do they come lubed sized and ready to rock, do they need a gas check and how much do you charge?

[Ranch Dog]

Ranch Dog, Do you sell your cast bullets; do they come lubed sized and ready to rock, do they need a gas check and how much do you charge?

I just sell the molds but a vendor, Carolina Cast Bullets, custom cast bullets. Jerry is a great guy and just be specific about the need for a .458" bullet. You might want to wait just a bit for me to try the bullets at that diameter, I should be done early next week.

[Quinc]

they seem kind of pricey. What do you think of these guys?
http://www.missouribullet.com/results.p ... category=6

[Ranch Dog]

they seem kind of pricey. What do you think of these guys?
http://www.missouribullet.com/results.p ... category=6

No experience with them but based on my experience with the RG, I would special order a Lee .458" Lube & Size Kit to run them through because that silly little .001" will make quite a OAL difference.

[twobitokie]

has anyone ever made or tried a semiwadcutter design for the 45-70? and might that help with the throat issues????

[Quinc]

they seem kind of pricey. What do you think of these guys?
http://www.missouribullet.com/results.p ... category=6

No experience with them but based on my experience with the RG, I would special order a Lee .458" Lube & Size Kit to run them through because that silly little .001" will make quite a OAL difference.

I emailed Missouribullet and asked them if it would chamber and feed alright in the Rio Grande, and his reply was; "Yep, they'll do fine if the gun is right."

So the question now is the gun right?

[Ranch Dog]

That kind of answer tells me they don't know diddly!

[Ranch Dog]

On behalf of the Rio Grande, I do not think the rifle has a throat issue for run of the mill shooting that is inside the SAAMI spec for the ammo; that being the ability to chamber a .458" bullet of 300 to 405-grains and push it out the barrel. They have done a great job of meeting the cut and bore dimension, better than Marlin did since 1972. The rub comes into play with a bullet that is outside the diameter or weight spec.

The issues I experienced was trying to use my .460 bullet that I designed for the tapered throat of the Marlin and not going through the step of sizing down. CAD projections had suggested that there would not be that much of a gain in length with a .458 bullet but once the special order Lee Lube and Size Kit was here and on the bench the actual sized bullets made a difference.

Cast bullet shooters have been bemoaning the short chambers on the Remlins rolling out. I suspect they are cut exactly the same as the RG, to the SAAMI spec. A lifetime of shooting deep throated Marlins changed our perception of what was the spec and a industry developed around meeting the rifle's needs. The degree of throat on the Marlin's did give a rifle more utility in bullet weight (which is really length) but it also insured that factory ammo never met spec performance as the combustion gases had room to escape rather than to being applied to the bullet going down the barrel. I thing Hornady's relationship with Marlin started the change or at least it was about the time the retooling started at Marlin. If you going to make factory ammo perform, you must have a very tight spec chamber and barrel. Don't know how I got on this but I wanted to just put some of this stuff in perspective concerning bullet fit.

[Ranch Dog]

Pretty much ready to go with the 425-grain bullet work for the RG. My shooting laptop crash a bit over a week ago so I moved all my shooting stuff to a sub notebook and going from Vista on the old to Windows 7 on the new. I'm waiting on an QuickLoad Windows 7 disk to update the program so it will run. I want to be sure I keep my shooting at 35.0K PSI.