apprehension of .357 as a deer rifle quelled

[donhuff]

Mike, if you read some more about paco, he has taken a bear with a 32-20 too. I don't think I would try that one.

[Mike.44]

I know what you mean. But a .32-20 loaded warm is a surprising round. The 32 or 357 just think about it...people use a lot smaller diameter bullets in bottlenecked cartridges. If you keep your range modest you can do quite well.

[Moon Tree]

A few of my thoughts on a .357 as a deer killing.
1. A 170 gr SWC is probably the same or larger diameter as a mushroomed .243.
2. The hole cut by most bullets is not what stops an animal, immediately. It is the shock waves that do the most damage by ripping, tearing, bursting, congealing the tissue around the bullet canel that does the most damage. Given the explosive results of the 1/2 gallon milk juggles in my test, I think my 170 gr SWC is up to the task.

[Mike.44]

I whole heartedly agree with you Moon Tree. Now just think of an XTP bullet that is opened up and what destruction that would cause. I used an XTP 44 cal saboted in a muzzle loader at very modest speed a couple years back. Took a 160 lb 8-point(big for FL) at approx 75 yds in the AM, and 2 hogs in the evening. I believe the 357 loaded hot would do that just as well.

[Moon Tree]

Mike.44, I'm really looking into casting my own bullets because it gets me one step further toward being self-sufficient, it will save a little money and it seems like it will be a fun thing to do. BUT, I am no purist. If jacketed bullets give me better results, I'd have no problem loading them. The XTP's would probably be my first choice.

Dang it. I need a lot more 1/2 milk cartons. I guess I'm going have to enlist the help of friends to collect some for me. I can't drink as much milk as I shoot up cartons. haha

[Mike.44]

I agree Moon, keep drinking milk........we need more experiments. Need to see just how many it takes to fully stop a 357

[Rooster59]

Thanks for the in depth, glossy, color photograph account of your testing. Very well done. Of course, you could have saved yourself some time if you had just asked.

The photo shows how us Missouri redneck deer hunters do .357 mag rifle penetration tests. Our wives claim the rifle for their own, take the appropriate ammunition (in this case factory Rem 180SJHP), sit in the tree stand with a lit ultra-light 100 and wait for a fat doe to stroll by. The smiling lady and said doe in the photo are exactly where the bullet struck the deer about 75 yards from her stand. It fell straight down and stayed there.

Hey, but shooting jugs is fun too!

[Chris]

It appears that your round penetrated well...probably too well, and did not expand, and behaved like a FMJ.

I believe I would use a softer alloy in actual field use to cut down on the pass throughs and game loss. Do you have access to something softer? What are your thoughts on the subject?

[Moon Tree]

Chris, I did have a little concern about the it passing through without doing much damage. But, I'm thinking it will do fine. Like I said earlier, the diameter of the SWC is larger than my .243 when it has mushroomed. Also, look at the 2x4 frame that held the cartons. I had three, 3" decking screws attaching them the 2x4's to the 2x8 bottom. One decking screw on each side of the 2x8 backing board screwed into the end of the 2x4 sides and 2 decking screws screwed into the bottom of the backing . That's a total of 10 screws holding the frame together. The bullet hit the cartons about 2 inches above the frame. The percussion from the impact bent all 10 screws severely. If I had hit lower, say midway up on the 2x4 frame. I'm sure it would have blow the board(s) right off the frame. I can only image what the force would do the lungs of a whitetail.

Of course, an expanding/mushrooming bullet should produce even more tissue damage, saying a .358 mushroom to .75. But, I also want an exit wound. That's what creates the blood trail if the deer gets out of sight. I once spent nearly 2 hours looking for a doe that didn't go more than 30 yards. I shot her almost straight on with my .243. But, there was only a little hair and 2 drops of blood. The bullet hit exactly where I had aimed, 1 1/2" left of the sternum. She had piled up in shoulder high grass. I walked by her twice. I won't do that again.

Now, I do have a lot of "redneck" testing to do before Nov. Is it really needed? Probably not. But, heck it's fun. With any luck I'll meet up with a groundhog or coyote, too.

[Johnz]

....I was reading where Paco Kelly has taken bear with the 357 in a rifle.

Well, that may work on a bear, but before I even tried it I'd want to make sure I had steel blind to run to in case the 1st shot didn't do the job.