92 misfeed, .38 but not .357: ideas?

[alphalimafoxtrot]

Hey folks!

I don't get out to shoot much, but I had a chance recently to take my 92 out again and give it a go. Last summer, I had zero success shooting it with .38 special reloads or new .38 ammo. It would immediately double-up, and/or "stovepipe" and otherwise not even cycle.

Now I had this thought, maybe I should actually load and shoot .357 ammo with the obvious increased length of cartridge and see what happens. Boom! That .357 magnum ammo actually feeds without jamming up.

So, great wise Rossi 92 problem-solvers, what does this imply? Is this that "ejector spring" problem? Does this have anything to do with the mainspring?

Now, I did completely strip this gun prior to shooting it the first time, and I mean down to the cartridge guides. Even though it all seems perfectly back together, could there be something not exactly right with my reinstallation?

I'm inclined to think I put it together correctly, as it feeds the longer .357 fine but not the shorter .38 cases.

Alright that's enough rambling for one posting!! Thanks in advance for your thoughts, friends.

Adam

[alphalimafoxtrot]

Well I like it when I find something that might help fix a gun malfunction, and let's see if this might be the right track to follow:

After doing some more thinking about my 92 misfeed issues, and surfing the web a while, and considering that I should probably NOT have removed the cartridge guides during my initial disassembly; I discovered that the right side cartridge guide may sometimes require shimming in order to allow proper feeding on the Rossi 92's. I am not certain that this is my key problem, but I am going to inspect this first when I tear down the gun.

Here's the link to the information I read about:
Rossi 92 cartridge guide repair

[akuser47]

I think it's been adressed here before but honestly I cannot remember. Do keep us posted .

[Sarge]

My 357 would flip 38's out on the ground if you worked the lever fast and it didn't feed magnums all that great, either. I must have had it apart a dozen times. I finally recontoured the cartridge guide a little and got it feeding 357's real skick. I finally gave up on getting 38's to work and just loaded my light loads in 357 brass.

[alphalimafoxtrot]

Sarge,

That's interesting to hear of your experiences with the 92 and feeding troubles, and your "fix" of the problem. Question: did your "recontour" of the cartridge guides involve the use of brass shims or spacers, as the article link describes?

I won't give up on this Rossi - I learned from the get-go that this is a "fix it til it works for you" kind of brand. However, I wish my first .38/.357 lever gun had been a Marlin 94 carbine - which I am also shopping for!

Thanks
Adam

[Sarge]

My guides had sharp angles and edges on the bottom and trough where the rim rides up. Sorry, no pics. I sent it down the road as soon as I got it working well.

[Sarge]

I just remembered another adjustment I had to make.

The carrier was flat as a pancake where the cartridge rides and I ground a groove in it to center the cartridge.

Of course this presents the cartridge lower so I had to locate the surface that limits how high the carrier raises, and adjust that.

This finally got 357 of all bullet shapes to feed reliably and 38 would too, if you worked the lever carefully.

[dlidster]

I'm going to refrain from speculating because that's just guessing. So let me share a thought. I have found that my R92 reliably feeds cartridges with an OAL between 1.45" and 1.60". Anything less than 1.45" and the rifle will double-feed and stove-pipe as mentioned in the original post. Cartridges in the neighborhood of 1.55" to 1.60" just slip right through.

I shoot nothing but handloads. And I shoot mostly .38s because I have buckets of brass. If the cast bullets I'm loading have a crimping groove, I ignore it. I seat the bullet so the COAL is 1.50" to 1.55". I've never had feeding problems.

BTW, I developed this practice the day I brought my own R92 home. I found it double-fed and really got bound up when I loaded it with some 125gr round-nose loads that I regularly use in my revolvers. These have a COAL of about 1.30." When I started seating these bullets in .38 special cases to a depth that approached or matched .357 magnum loads, all the feeding problems disappeared. If both .38 cases and .357 cases are loaded with the same bullet seated to create the same COAL, they will feed and function identically in an R92.

[alphalimafoxtrot]

Thanks, dlidster - the OAL does seem to be the main deal.

Adam

[alphalimafoxtrot]

I'm going to refrain from speculating because that's just guessing. So let me share a thought. I have found that my R92 reliably feeds cartridges with an OAL between 1.45" and 1.60". Anything less than 1.45" and the rifle will double-feed and stove-pipe as mentioned in the original post. Cartridges in the neighborhood of 1.55" to 1.60" just slip right through.

I shoot nothing but handloads. And I shoot mostly .38s because I have buckets of brass. If the cast bullets I'm loading have a crimping groove, I ignore it. I seat the bullet so the COAL is 1.50" to 1.55". I've never had feeding problems.

BTW, I developed this practice the day I brought my own R92 home. I found it double-fed and really got bound up when I loaded it with some 125gr round-nose loads that I regularly use in my revolvers. These have a COAL of about 1.30." When I started seating these bullets in .38 special cases to a depth that approached or matched .357 magnum loads, all the feeding problems disappeared. If both .38 cases and .357 cases are loaded with the same bullet seated to create the same COAL, they will feed and function identically in an R92.

dlidster,

I quoted your reply so I could remember to take this question over to Ranch Dog's Lee Loader forum to get some more ideas.
What you mention makes the most sense to me - when using .38 special cases, seating the .38 bullets to approximate .357 COAL to get the feeding problems cured.

I spent another afternoon yesterday working the action with my .357 dummy rounds, trying to find that "sweet spot" where the action most reliably fed and ejected rounds, and noticed a few salient points.

First off, you must throw the lever firmly and completely to its maximum range of motion in order to achieve consistent and proper feeding and ejection. Anything less than a firm, complete lever cycle and rounds fail to feed and may begin to have problems.

Second, no matter how many times I tried the same firm level stroke with the .38 special dummy rounds, they always stovepiped or double-fed.

So, it looks like two things are apparent: COAL on this particular rifle is critical, for whatever reason, and will not reliably chamber or feed shorter .38 Special. Finally, I now realize how important firm lever strokes are for this gun, in order to maintain consistent positive feeding of .357 rounds.

Maybe this is an obvious thing to some of you lever action shooters, but my experience with levers has been with friend's guns long past - and those were well-worn .30-30's that didn't seem to be so sensitive to feeding.

Alright - thanks guys, for allowing me to rant on about my findings!
Take care, and be well.

Adam