Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Postby Centaur 1 » 04 Mar 2014 22

I figured that if I'm going to test my rifle tomorrow I might as well do some load testing also. I've been having good results using IMR4198 and I think the most accurate will fall between 18 and 22 grains. I shot these two groups recently using 20 grains, I shot three rounds, adjusted the scope then shot three more.

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I was pushing the bullets a lot faster and the groups weren't as small, but the last time out I got decent results using Varget. This week I'm going to try Leverevolution powder with my cast bullets. I've never done it before, but I'm going to try a ladder test. I loaded in one grain increments from 28 grains up to 36 grains. I also made five each with 30, 32 and 34 grain of LE to see what the groups look like. Hopefully my rifle will actually fire every time I pull the trigger.

Does anyone recognize the bullet I'm using? :D

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"We have federal regulations and state laws that prohibit hunting ducks with more than three rounds. And yet it's legal to hunt humans with 15-round, 30-round, even 150-round magazines." Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-California)
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Postby Centaur 1 » 08 Mar 2014 00

Well it's been a few days and I've had a chance to calm down. With all the work I did the gun still doesn't fire on the first pull of the trigger. I was positive that I fixed the problem, and now I'm at a loss for words. I think my next step is to completely disassemble the bolt and look for problems. Maybe even do the same to the bolt on my Marlin for comparison. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any.

On another note, Leverevolution powder was a failure in my gun. No big deal, 20 - 22 grains of IMR4198 will put all bullets within an inch at 50 yards. If I need more velocity Varget will give similar groups when loaded with 31 grains. Next up will be Reloader 7 if I can just get the darn thing to fire when the trigger is pulled. :evil:
"We have federal regulations and state laws that prohibit hunting ducks with more than three rounds. And yet it's legal to hunt humans with 15-round, 30-round, even 150-round magazines." Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-California)
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Postby Tuco Ramirez » 08 Mar 2014 22

Nothing wrong with looking at the bolt and polishing it up. Have you tested the headspace yet? And with the stock removed and the hammer cocked how compressed is the Main spring? My spring has to be 100% compressed between coils. Your sure there is no contact with the cross bolt safety as the hammer travels forward? Speaking of the hammer what do the contact points on the side eof the hammer look like? I polished mine like glass.
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IT'S FIXED

Postby Centaur 1 » 09 Mar 2014 00

Good news, I finally figured out what the problem was and my rifle now fires every time the trigger is pulled. I took lots of pictures and I'll go over what I did to make it work properly. The work I did last week on the locking bolt did not cure the fail to fire problem, but I believe it still needed to be done. Today I took my Rio Grande and my 336 from the safe so I could compare the two side by side and try to figure out once and for all why my RG wouldn't fire every time I pulled the trigger. The first thing I discovered was that the hammer on the 336 would travel forward until the hammer would strike the rear of the breech bolt. The hammer on my RG was stopping short of this position. The first picture shows the gap between the hammer and the rear of the breech bolt, and the second picture shows the hammer on my 336 and how it's fully against the bolt.

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The next picture is a side by side comparison of both breech bolts, they are so close in size that they will fit in either gun.

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I was concerned that something might be interfering with the firing pin keeping it from properly striking the primer. On the left is the 336 and the RG is on the right. As you can see there was nothing keeping the firing pin from protruding from the bolt face. The RG firing pin was actually longer than the Marlin.

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The next two pictures were taken after pulling the trigger, then recocking the hammer. The first is the RG and you can see how the rear firing pin is still sticking out the back of the bolt. The second picture shows how the firing pin on the Marlin is driven all the forward until the back edge of the firing pin is flush with the back of the bolt.

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The next picture was taken with the breech bolts removed from both rifles and the trigger pulled. You can see that the Marlin's hammer is able to fall further than the hammer on the RG. It's evident that something is preventing the hammer on the RG from fully striking the firing pin.
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Just so you know what I'm talking about, this is the tube of Prussian blue that I used to find what was stopping the hammer short from fully striking the firing pin.

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This is the area of the receiver that I coated with the Prussian blue.

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After coating the inside of the receiver with the Prussian blue, I pulled the trigger. I removed the hammer from the gun and you can see in this picture where the hammer was making contact with the receiver. The Prussian blue was transferred from the receiver to the hammer wherever contact was made.

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Another picture of the hammer, it's easy to see that it was making contact in the area of the cross bolt safety.

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I brushed some %@*&$ Red on the hammer to make it easy to see exactly how much metal I was removing from the hammer. Then I clamped the hammer in a machinist vise to act as a guide and to keep me from removing too much metal. This is what it looked like when I first started to file the hammer.

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This is what it looked like when I was done removing metal from the hammer.

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This picture is a little fuzzy, but you can see that the hammer is now free to move forward enough to make contact with the breech bolt. This now lets the hammer drive the firing pin into the primer, firing the gun.

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When I was finished working on my gun and after I had put both rifles back together, It was too late in the day to go to the range to test fire my Rossi. While I was at the range last Wednesday, the RG failed to fire on the first strike at least 80% of the time. What I was able to do is, I grabbed six cases that had been sized and primed, but I hadn't loaded the cartridges yet. I went out in the garage and closed all the doors and windows. Then I grabbed a cardboard box and taped it closed except for a slit to stick the muzzle through. This kept the noise from the primers being fired, down to a level that no one called the police. All six primers were ignited on the first pull of the trigger. This gun hasn't fired more than twice in a row before having a misfire, so six in a row is one heck of an accomplishment. I might actually now have a gun that I'm not afraid to take hunting. +guns
Last edited by Centaur 1 on 09 Mar 2014 10, edited 2 times in total.
"We have federal regulations and state laws that prohibit hunting ducks with more than three rounds. And yet it's legal to hunt humans with 15-round, 30-round, even 150-round magazines." Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-California)
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Postby Strawdawg » 09 Mar 2014 00

Good work!! Be a lot more fun now
Steve

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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Postby Tuco Ramirez » 09 Mar 2014 01

Thats what we would call good Police work there detective!! Outstanding... Great write up and lots of pics to help other folks out. Now shoot the rifling out of that thing..... :lol:
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Postby akuser47 » 09 Mar 2014 01

Great work and thanks for the great how to as u did it. Helps all of us.
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Postby Centaur 1 » 09 Mar 2014 01

Tuco Ramirez wrote:Thats what we would call good Police work there detective!! Outstanding... Great write up and lots of pics to help other folks out. Now shoot the rifling out of that thing..... :lol:


Now that it fires I plan on firing the crap out of it. Might even have to remove the scope and shoot some steel plate matches.

I also want to share something else I did for my gun room. I work on my guns and do all my reloading in a spare bedroom. Now that the kids have moved out I made my daughters old room into my man cave, or as I like to call it, "The Armory". Back when I was forced to do all my work out in the garage, it was nice having my compressor out there with me. Now that I've moved everything except bullet casting inside to "The Armory". I was actually beginning to put together a plan to plumb in a compressed air line from the garage, I wasn't told not to do it, but I was told by SWMBO that my plan wasn't liked. Well I now have compressed air in my room for under $30. I bought a 7 gallon air tank at Harbor Freight, along with an air hose and nozzle. To charge it I carry it out to the garage and connect the two hoses together with a small ball valve that has two male qd fittings. I connect the hoses, one from the compressor and the other from my air tank, then slowly open the ball valve. when the pressure of both tanks equalize I just turn off the ball valve and disconnect the two hoses. Then I just carry the portable tank back into the house. This is the tank next to my loading bench.

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"We have federal regulations and state laws that prohibit hunting ducks with more than three rounds. And yet it's legal to hunt humans with 15-round, 30-round, even 150-round magazines." Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-California)
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Postby klr » 09 Mar 2014 09

Tuco Ramirez wrote:Thats what we would call good Police work there detective!! Outstanding... Great write up and lots of pics to help other folks out. Now shoot the rifling out of that thing..... :lol:

+1
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Postby Ranch Dog » 09 Mar 2014 10

Good job Centaur 1!
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