Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

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SmackerWebbley
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Post by SmackerWebbley »

I know I am coming into this debate very late but I was wondering how AP got on? I have put 5-600 rounds through my RG with never an issue. I have used Federal 150gr PP almost exclusively. Last weekend I went to the range and purchased a box of Remington 150gr due to unavailability of the Federal stuff. Out of 20 rounds I had 8 FTF! The shells look exactly the same as the ones in AP's. The primers all look like they have not been dented as hard as the 12 that did fire. I re-chambered each FTF round and not one fired. Even after being struck the second time the primers did not appear to be indented any further. Of the shells that did fire they each had a ring around each case just above the rim. I put another 10 Federal rounds through straight after this and they all went off without a hitch. I have never experienced any FTF with this rifle before. Do you think it most likely to be a poor batch of ammo? Your thoughts....Smacker
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Post by Ranch Dog »

Sounds like it's bad ammo!
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Post by SmackerWebbley »

That's what I was hoping to hear. I will try a few different brands this weekend and see what happens. Cheers Smacker.
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Post by Archer »

So far, I've been able to pick up two Winchester 94s in the past couple years for $300 or less in good shape.
One of them is Winchester mystery finish but it still has 98% of the finish so I'm not too concerned about it and if the finish goes there's always Cerakote. and I'll still have less in it than I'd have put into a new Rossi Rio.

The Marlin 336s go on sale at one of the chain stores not too far away periodically for about $500. I've seen several that are built right after Remington took them over so with a good inspection I'd expect to be able to get one that works.

The problems I've been reading about the Rio seem like there's a few things that are pretty hard to find in an initial inspection. I think I'd like one in .45-70 but I'm leery of them in spite of seeing a couple guys buy them with very good results.
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Post by SmackerWebbley »

Ok I got to the range today and tested out some PPU rounds. The first 16 went off without a hitch then the next 3 FTF! Again I fired 10 Federal with no issues. I noticed the primers seem to be seated flush in the federal rounds whereas they sit slightly proud in the PPU rounds. The Remington rounds that I had the issues with last week also had this feature/defect. When I got home I pulled the rifle apart and bent the adjustment plate out to increase the hammer spring tension. This seems to have worked as the hammer definitely feels harder to pull back. That said I have no tool to properly test this. I chambered a few empty shells and let the hammer fall on a few of them. When extracted they all seem to be whacked nice and flat. So back to the range tomorrow to see if this has made any real improvement......
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Post by akuser47 »

That sounds good keep us posted.
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Post by SmackerWebbley »

Well went back to the range after buying 500 rounds of PPU on special. This might be a case of you get what you pay for but here goes. I noticed that these particular PPU rounds seemed to be finished more uniformly than the box I had tested the week before. In that I mean that the primers all seemed to be seated nice and snug and the overall appearance of the shells seemed to be of high quality. I placed the first round in the breach worked the lever and bang! Fired first time no problems. When I went to eject the cartridge it was stuck very tight. So much so that I had to readjust my grip to open the action. Upon doing so the bolt returned minus the extractor claw! The shell stayed in tight. Ultimately I used a rod to extract the empty shell. The shortest range session in history! Upon returning home I tried chambering the spent shell and comparing it to the other ones from the week before. It was definitely the tightest of the bunch. The Federal shells were easy to extract with the small screwdriver I was using but the PPU shell was about twice as tight maybe more. I removed the broken extractor and have ordered two of them (just in case). I am now awaiting the gun store to order in the extractors for me so that I can start again. Question? Do you think I should return the ammo or wait to see if the replaced extractor will fix the problem? I have seen a few posts where the PPU ammo has caused this problem, thinking out loud I guess........your thoughts?
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Post by Ranch Dog »

If you could find a Marlin extractor, I would try it. It is a little heavier and the claw better quality. At least that is what has been reported here.

PPU ammo is loaded to the CIP standard (46.4K PSI) where the US brands would be loaded to SAAMI (42.0K PSI). It has been my observation that PPU also uses a bit thicker brass which causes it to "rebound" less at the shot. I do like it as a handloader as it does wear well. Personally, I shoot the CIP standard in my handloads in both my Glenfield 30GT and Rio Grande.

While I waited on the Marlin extractor, I think I would polish the chamber as well. I'm not talking about changing the dimensions, just slicking it up so that the chamber is not the cause of the hard extraction. Here is a good way to go about it: Polishing a Rifle Chamber
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Post by SmackerWebbley »

Thanks RD! I have already had a go at doing this. I used an M-16 wire chamber brush with a bit of ovenware polish and a drill. Definitely seemed to loosen things up a bit. I will order the Marin extractor and see how it goes. I will also follow your instructions in relation to the chamber polish. Thanks so much for your advice. I will let you know how I get on. Smacker.
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Re: Rio 30-30 Fail to fire

Post by SmackerWebbley »

Well.....I replaced the extractor with a new Rossi one. I have ordered a Marlin one as well just in case. I polished the chamber following RDs instructions using the 600 and 800 grit wet and dry. I also used some 0000 steel wool to finish off. The chamber now looks like a mirror! Back to the range....Fired off another 10 of the same PPU rounds in succession with pretty much the same results. The cases all stuck like before. the difference was I could get them out with an overhand grip from the waist but not going to win any cowboy action matches anytime soon doing this! The extractor worked well, being new, who knows maybe the old one was due to go? Overall, I think polishing the chamber definitely helped to improve things but obviously my chamber is just that bit too tight. Not sure if this adds to the accuracy side of things but the little bugger shoots 1.5 MOA with open sights so I do not want to get rid of it any time soon. In the end I took back the PPU (Highland) ammo to the gun dealer and upgraded to some Hornady 150s which run like a charm. Overall the exercise was very interesting and taught me so much about this little gun that I would never have learned if nothing had gone wrong. Now I am going to experiment with the hammer spring adjustment plate which after fiddling with it has produced no fail to fires but is not exactly like pulling a beer either!
Thank you to all who provided feedback. Smacker
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