Question about load data

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Re: Question about load data

Post by joec »

Arktikos wrote:I may have to order some of those 535's. I'd love to do some tests comparing those with my 525 Beartooths into 20" of spruce tree! Would like to recover some of each and see what sort of shape they are in which could say a lot about if Tombstone has a good bullet thats hard but not too brittle. I've been ordering from Beartooth and am very satisfied with them except it takes a long time to get them whereas my Tombstone 350gr order was here pronto..
Look up Doc Holiday over on http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/ and ask what he has made. They also have a number of tests of his bullets over there and stack up well against the Beartooth bullets.

Yesterday I went to a small Gun and Archery store a couple of blocks from me to pick up some case lube and they had a 1 lb jug of Accurate Powder 5744 which a lot seem to like in the 45-70 so I got it and 1000 each of Large Pistol, Small Pistol and Large Rifle primers which they also had. Pistols where both Winchester but rifle was CCI. So went in figuring on leaving spending about $10 and left spending about $130 however at this time got to get it as it is available. Primers and powder have been hard to find lately around here and as is the prices have gone up about 10% from the last ones I got.

I would love to try some of Ranch Dogs also however Carolina Bullet doesn't list his 45-70 bullets if he made them. I did get his 45 Colt 290 gr though from CB.
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Re: Question about load data

Post by Ranch Dog »

joec wrote:I would love to try some of Ranch Dogs also however Carolina Bullet doesn't list his 45-70 bullets if he made them. I did get his 45 Colt 290 gr though from CB.
He has just about every mold I offered, just doesn't have them listed.
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Re: Question about load data

Post by Arktikos »

joec wrote:
Look up Doc Holiday over on http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/ and ask what he has made. They also have a number of tests of his bullets over there and stack up well against the Beartooth bullets.

Yesterday I went to a small Gun and Archery store a couple of blocks from me to pick up some case lube and they had a 1 lb jug of Accurate Powder 5744 which a lot seem to like in the 45-70 so I got it and 1000 each of Large Pistol, Small Pistol and Large Rifle primers which they also had. Pistols where both Winchester but rifle was CCI. So went in figuring on leaving spending about $10 and left spending about $130 however at this time got to get it as it is available. Primers and powder have been hard to find lately around here and as is the prices have gone up about 10% from the last ones I got.

I would love to try some of Ranch Dogs also however Carolina Bullet doesn't list his 45-70 bullets if he made them. I did get his 45 Colt 290 gr though from CB.
I'll check that link out, thanks..
Yesterday I was into the local gun store seeing if they got any small rifle primers in (nope) and was browsing thru the powders and found some 5744 so I bought one and brought it home. I like the stuff for medium loads and just for fun ran 5744 with the 525gr piledriver through Quickload and saw I could get about 1400 fps with them at under 35000psi and that seems reasonable to me for what I want them for. That being to stop a charge at close range from a very large and very PO'ed brown bear and send him onto the happy hunting grounds.. With maxed out loads I could get a couple more hundred fps but at what cost in recoil, and the ability to get on him for a second shot. 1400 fps from one of these heavies will be plenty to crush bone, and keep on going, probably out his rear end.. I'll probably work up to 1400 with RL7 but it is nice that 5744 could get me there as well in a pinch.
There was an article written about someone who used 5744 in a 45/70 to attempt to duplicate the Billy Dixon shot of 1700 yds . Wish I could find that article... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bat ... lls#Battle and
Last edited by Arktikos on 12 Apr 2013 20:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question about load data

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Arktikos wrote: I'll check that link out, thanks..
Yesterday I was into the local gun store seeing if they got any small rifle primers in (nope) and was browsing thru the powders and found some 5744 so I bought one and brought it home. I like the stuff for medium loads and just for fun ran 5744 with the 525gr piledriver through Quickload and saw I could get about 1400 fps with them at under 35000psi and that seems reasonable to me for what I want them for. That being to stop a charge at close range from a very large and very PO'ed brown bear and send him onto the happy hunting grounds.. With maxed out loads I could get a couple more hundred fps but at what cost in recoil, and the ability to get on him for a second shot. 1400 fps from one of these heavies will be plenty to crush bone, and keep on going, probably out his rear end.. I'll probably work up to 1400 with RL7 but it is nice that 5744 could get me there as well in a pinch.
There was an article written about someone who used 5744 in a 45/70 to attempt to duplicate the Billy Dixon shot of 1700 yds . Wish I could find that article... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bat ... Walls#Batt and
Ranch Dog was kind enough to run three powders I normally use with 45-70, IMR 4198, IMR 3031 and Reloader 7 but hadn't thought about this for the 525 gr bullet. I had actually figured it as a step up from Trailboss behind my normal Badman Bullets 405 g LRNFP. I would appreciate that info though for the 5744 from quickload if you don't mind sharing it. I doubt I would use it but never know when it might come in handy.

The only bear I might run into around here is a black bear as far as I've heard. Now if I lived in Washington State where my oldest son lives it wouldn't be uncommon for him to have Grizzly on his 10 acres. He had 15 removed when he built the place years ago. But then he sees elk, deer, moose as well as every thing in the water they have. His home over sits Puget Sound and a few miles from Bremerton in a little place called Seabeck. He lives on a piece of the family mountain he and his wife got as a wedding gift.
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Re: Question about load data

Post by pricedo »

joec wrote:
Arktikos wrote: I'll check that link out, thanks..
Yesterday I was into the local gun store seeing if they got any small rifle primers in (nope) and was browsing thru the powders and found some 5744 so I bought one and brought it home. I like the stuff for medium loads and just for fun ran 5744 with the 525gr piledriver through Quickload and saw I could get about 1400 fps with them at under 35000psi and that seems reasonable to me for what I want them for. That being to stop a charge at close range from a very large and very PO'ed brown bear and send him onto the happy hunting grounds.. With maxed out loads I could get a couple more hundred fps but at what cost in recoil, and the ability to get on him for a second shot. 1400 fps from one of these heavies will be plenty to crush bone, and keep on going, probably out his rear end.. I'll probably work up to 1400 with RL7 but it is nice that 5744 could get me there as well in a pinch.
There was an article written about someone who used 5744 in a 45/70 to attempt to duplicate the Billy Dixon shot of 1700 yds . Wish I could find that article... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bat ... Walls#Batt and
Ranch Dog was kind enough to run three powders I normally use with 45-70, IMR 4198, IMR 3031 and Reloader 7 but hadn't thought about this for the 525 gr bullet. I had actually figured it as a step up from Trailboss behind my normal Badman Bullets 405 g LRNFP. I would appreciate that info though for the 5744 from quickload if you don't mind sharing it. I doubt I would use it but never know when it might come in handy.

The only bear I might run into around here is a black bear as far as I've heard. Now if I lived in Washington State where my oldest son lives it wouldn't be uncommon for him to have Grizzly on his 10 acres. He had 15 removed when he built the place years ago. But then he sees elk, deer, moose as well as every thing in the water they have. His home over sits Puget Sound and a few miles from Bremerton in a little place called Seabeck. He lives on a piece of the family mountain he and his wife got as a wedding gift.
The 430 grain hc lead flat nose bullet is a good compromise between penetrating capability and trajectory.
The 430 grain hc lead bullet @ 1750 fps is a 200 yard load in my GG without the necessity of a whole lot of "Kentucky guesstimation", prayin & finger crossing.
Can't tell me that a Grizzly hit in the right place with a 430 grain hc lead bullet traveling @ 1500 - 1600 fps down range velocity isn't going to drop.
With big dangerous animals stopping is a higher priority than killing.
If the animal eventually dies half an hour after it has ripped your head & torso from your body all other discussions become moot.
Popped a good size cow elk last fall with my Marlin 1895G using a load pushing a 430 grain hc lead bullet approx 1750 fps and it dropped like a bag of hammers & elk are reputedly hard to kill.
Saw a big bull elk shot through the lungs with a 180 grain Nosler Partition bullet from a 300 Weatherby Magnum rifle at a little over 100 yards run 1/4 mile before running out of steam in a heavy thicket of tag alders.
Thank God for making Bluetick hounds which found the critter within half an hour.
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Re: Question about load data

Post by Arktikos »

joec wrote:
Ranch Dog was kind enough to run three powders I normally use with 45-70, IMR 4198, IMR 3031 and Reloader 7 but hadn't thought about this for the 525 gr bullet. I had actually figured it as a step up from Trailboss behind my normal Badman Bullets 405 g LRNFP. I would appreciate that info though for the 5744 from quickload if you don't mind sharing it. I doubt I would use it but never know when it might come in handy.
PM Sent. Didn't want to post the QL results for everyone to see as it might not be accurate with all the variables and wouldn't want to cause harm to anyone not aware of that. The jpg file with the results was chopped off so if you click on it it will take you to my photobucket account and you can see the whole enchilada.. :roll:
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Re: Question about load data

Post by Arktikos »

pricedo wrote: The 430 grain hc lead flat nose bullet is a good compromise between penetrating capability and trajectory.
The 430 grain hc lead bullet @ 1750 fps is a 200 yard load in my GG without the necessity of a whole lot of "Kentucky guesstimation", prayin & finger crossing.
Can't tell me that a Grizzly hit in the right place with a 430 grain hc lead bullet traveling @ 1500 - 1600 fps down range velocity isn't going to drop.
With big dangerous animals stopping is a higher priority than killing.
If the animal eventually dies half an hour after it has ripped your head & torso from your body all other discussions become moot.
Popped a good size cow elk last fall with my Marlin 1895G using a load pushing a 430 grain hc lead bullet approx 1750 fps and it dropped like a bag of hammers & elk are reputedly hard to kill.
Saw a big bull elk shot through the lungs with a 180 grain Nosler Partition bullet from a 300 Weatherby Magnum rifle at a little over 100 yards run 1/4 mile before running out of steam in a heavy thicket of tag alders.
Thank God for making Bluetick hounds which found the critter within half an hour.
All true and very good points! I subscribe to the "loading for bear" thing as having the heaviest hammer in the box and thus the 520gr. It is the no compromise solution for zero to 100ft which is the danger zone for the big carnivorous round here.. I'm sure the bear could not tell the difference between in the 100 extra grains of lead, but it is for my reassurance that I want those in my gun when out in the back 40 with my wife this summer..
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Re: Question about load data

Post by pricedo »

Arktikos wrote:
pricedo wrote: The 430 grain hc lead flat nose bullet is a good compromise between penetrating capability and trajectory.
The 430 grain hc lead bullet @ 1750 fps is a 200 yard load in my GG without the necessity of a whole lot of "Kentucky guesstimation", prayin & finger crossing.
Can't tell me that a Grizzly hit in the right place with a 430 grain hc lead bullet traveling @ 1500 - 1600 fps down range velocity isn't going to drop.
With big dangerous animals stopping is a higher priority than killing.
If the animal eventually dies half an hour after it has ripped your head & torso from your body all other discussions become moot.
Popped a good size cow elk last fall with my Marlin 1895G using a load pushing a 430 grain hc lead bullet approx 1750 fps and it dropped like a bag of hammers & elk are reputedly hard to kill.
Saw a big bull elk shot through the lungs with a 180 grain Nosler Partition bullet from a 300 Weatherby Magnum rifle at a little over 100 yards run 1/4 mile before running out of steam in a heavy thicket of tag alders.
Thank God for making Bluetick hounds which found the critter within half an hour.
All true and very good points! I subscribe to the "loading for bear" thing as having the heaviest hammer in the box and thus the 520gr. It is the no compromise solution for zero to 100ft which is the danger zone for the big carnivorous round here.. I'm sure the bear could not tell the difference between in the 100 extra grains of lead, but it is for my reassurance that I want those in my gun when out in the back 40 with my wife this summer..
I'm confident that my 430 grain load will do the job on a big bad Grizz & if I need to reach out to 175 yards to bring down a moose or elk it will do that to without having a garden hose trajectory to compensate for & a lot of "Kentucky guessin & hopin" to get on target.
You do what you see fit cause it's your butt you'll be protecting out in the back 40 this summer.
If it doesn't work out you'll still be OK as long as you can run faster than your wife..........just kidding of course. :lol:
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Re: Question about load data

Post by Ranch Dog »

Joe, I ran it again with the Accurate 5744...

45-70 Govt for the RG4570 at an OAL of 2.500". I think the RG is fully capable of 35.0 KPSI so that is what these loads are generated to. I generate loads with a case capacity of 86% to 105%, that has worked best all around for me. From my work with the pressure trace equipment and at the reloading bench, loads exceeding 105% have issues. The only powder affected by this caveat is IMR 3031 but you will see that I've included a 35.0 KPSI load with it for comparison. Finally, with RLD 7 there is always the question of; "are you talking about the new or old formula". The answer is; "I don't know", so use all the information below at your own risk.

430-grain lead bullet that is 1.035" long and sized to .458":
IMR 3031, 47.6-grains, 1698 FPS, 105% Case Capacity, 29.1 KPSI
IMR 3031, 50.3-grains, 1805 FPS, 111% Case Capacity, 35.0 KPSI
IMR 4198, 41.2-grains, 1730 FPS, 95% Case Capacity, 35.0 KPSI
RLD 7, 42.6-grains, 1733 FPS, 91% Case Capacity, 35.0 KPSI
Accurate 5744, 35.0-grains, 1692 FPS, 77% Case Capacity, 34.9 KPSI

535-grain lead bullet that is 1.285" long and sized to .458":
IMR 3031, 38.2-grains, 1428 FPS, 105% Case Capacity, 28.3 KPSI
IMR 3031, 40.8-grains, 1533 FPS, 112% Case Capacity, 35.0 KPSI
IMR 4198, 33.4-grains, 1461 FPS, 96% Case Capacity, 35.0 KPSI
RLD 7, 34.5-grains, 1465 FPS, 92% Case Capacity, 35.0 KPSI
Accurate 5744, 28.3-grains, 1424 FPS, 78% Case Capacity, 34.8 KPSI

The information has been calculated at 70°. When shooting your loads, consider the grain or velocity max. Do not exceed either.
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Re: Question about load data

Post by Arktikos »

Ranch Dog wrote: Accurate 5744, 28.3-grains, 1424 FPS, 78% Case Capacity, 34.8 KPSI

The information has been calculated at 70°. When shooting your loads, consider the grain or velocity max. Do not exceed either.
Well my confidence with QL is improving! I came up with very similar numbers as you did. How do you calculate for ambient or does QL default to 70?
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