Starting from Scratch, and still Learning

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Re: Starting from scratch

Post by Archer »

Coming in a little late to the party but here's my input...

I don't exactly recommend the Lee Hand press, it's an ok portable press for limited volume use but IMO you are better off attaching the Lee Reloader Press 90045 to a small board that you can C clamp in place on a shooting or work bench. You can thus still get almost the same portability out of it but it is MUCH more stable and easy to use than the hand press typically is. The downside is it isn't breech lock so you won't exactly be able to drop the dies in pre adjusted setup but adjustments aren't that difficult or time consuming.

IF you are going to load lead, and for that matter some of the plated bullets I would recommend getting the Lyman M expander die in the caliber you intend to load. Like RD I'd tend to recommend loading jacketed bullets to start however since they are a bit easier. The M die can be used for jacketed as well as lead. I'm a big fan.

The comments on the scale are important. You must have an accurate GRAIN scale NOT gram scale and unless your wife is measuring tiny weights you may need to get something dedicated to this purpose. Remember a grain is 1/7000th of a pound and you will probably be measuring something on the order of 5 to maybe 20 grains for .357 depending on your recipe and you want to be accurate down to ~.1 grain.

Reloading manual(s) and/or data are important. I know one person who's blown up two guns pulling data off the internet forums and not checking it against the manufacturer's charts. I like the Lyman and Hornady manuals but as has been mentioned by others I've probably collected 3 or 4 running feet of various manuals in multiple editions.

Lee dies are pretty good and economical. I prefer Redding powder measures but they are a bit expensive and the Lee ones will get you started. Many folks are happy with them and don't feel the need to upgrade, others decide to change to something different once they get into it for a while.

The Lee powder scale works but you need to pay attention to your environment. They are a precision instrument but because they are also lightweight plastic construction they are susceptible to light breezes or even static from plastic bins, Styrofoam blocks or whatever. No ceiling fans, open windows, or anything that has a static charge anywhere nearby when you are using them. With ANY scale, know how to adjust it and be careful putting the pan on and taking it off the scale to avoid changing the weight adjustment. The more recent Lee scales are not as easy to jar off weight than the older versions. I've seen the light poise weights on many makes of beam scales 'walk' up or down the beam if it isn't treated gently. I've seen precision lab grade electronic scales change weight readings depending on where you are standing. Get to know your equipment and how it works.

The Frankford trays are pretty good. They are better fitted to calibers than some of the others and are pretty compact. I'd prefer it if they had 55 or 60 holes as opposed to 50. The extra row of holes lets you keep a running gap between what's done and what's not but other than the trays a buddy of mine had when I was learning I haven't seen that style in a while. The MTM Universal trays made out of hard plastic with 3 different hole sizes and stepped holes on one side are a cute idea that doesn't work out well in practice. Be aware Frankford is putting out a copy of the MTM one now so you probably want to avoid that.
The MTM Universal Compact tray and similar ones from Lyman and Hornady are all pretty good. Could be made from the same mold with different name inserts and they'll stack together. If you go that route unless you are looking to vary the colors get whatever is least expensive.

Consistency may be the hobgoblin of the small mind but consistency is your goal in reloading and if you are not consistent you better give it up. IF you can follow a recipe out of a cookbook without the need to always change something and you get good results you can reload.

P.S.
Unique and Power Pistol for .38 level loads and H110 or Win 296 for full bore magnum loads.
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Re: Starting from scratch

Post by GRV01 »

Great info, but a question

What is it that you would say makes it easier to reload jacketed rounds, or put anothet way, what is more difficult about reloading cast?

And i hear you about the hand press. Its just this move across the country is eating at me and we're trying to downsize as much as possible and i just cant justify the extra space for a table press of any kind. At this point i just want to give it a test ride, basically, and make a couple dozen rounds with either the hand press or the Lee Loader i just ordered

Speaking of which, i hear the Lee Loader is best for jacketed rounds but if one wants to do cast one may simply call Lee and order a custom flarer for .358?
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Re: Starting from scratch

Post by Ohio3Wheels »

Cast bullets add at least one more variable that jacketed don't. In most cases cast bullets shoot best and lead less if they are about 0.001 over groove dimension. There are always exceptions but if I were starting out and when I start out with a new gun/bullet combination that's where I start. Also contrary to what seems logical "hard cast" bullets will lead (significantly) if they don't fit the bore. A softer bullet will "bump" up to fill the bore and get a seal given a chance. These are just some of the extras when you get into cast bullets, I always warn the new guys that they need to keep an eye on their bores and clean as soon as you see leading (get it early) don't let it build up.

Enjoy the Lee Loade it's a good way to learn.

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Re: Starting from scratch

Post by Archer »

With a lead bullet you have:
1) potential variations in alloy and production which can result in differences in hardness. For example Hornady and Speer both sell nearly pure lead swaged bullets which are quite soft. You can get cast bullets from nearly pure lead to high tin alloy running the gambit from dead soft to very hard. You can have additional treatments that may change the hardness as well. (Dropping the bullets into cool water/ 'heat treating' them on a baking sheet?)

You have to match the hardness to the load you are going to use and the task the bullets are going to do.

2) Different diameter choices. Sized correctly lead may leave very little in your bore. Sized incorrectly and you may get more leading.

3) Gas checks or no gas checks? Do you need a bullet with a copper diaper on it or is the lead base strong enough for the load you are running.

4) Lubricant or no lubricant? What kind? Powder coated? Plated?

5) In general jacketed bullets won't shave or get cut by the case mouth even if partly misaligned. Lead on the other hand will shave or cut easily and copper plated bullets can sometimes cut even easier than lead depending on the hardness. Expanding and Belling operations are much more critical IMO.

Regarding table or surface space.
You are going to HAVE to have some surface space for the scale and probably the powder dump.
For a decade or more I didn't have a dedicated load bench or even loading area.
I bolted a single stage press (Lee Reloader, RCBS Partner) and a Dillon Square Deal progressive to 2x6s and C clamped the board to the arms of a ancient heavy duty office chair when I needed to use them. I've used an old Lyman 55 powder measure with the integral clamp attached to a folding table, a desk and a coffee table and later a Redding 3BR measure bolted to one of those 2x6s clamped to a table or that office chair to dispense powder. (I used to like to have the scale on one table and run the Redding measure off the chair so that working the measure didn't bump the scale. I still like to have the scale separate from the measure and the press to avoid bumping it once it is set up.)

Likewise I set up a base for my RCBS power trimmer that allows me to stow it in the reloading closet or under the reloading bench until I need it.

So what I was suggesting was bolting a more traditional press to a board that would allow you to C clamp that board to a table or bench when you were reloading but which could easily be removed and stowed when you weren't.

Assuming you get to the point of putting together a reloading bench I highly recommend the Inline Fabrications Quick Change Ultra Mount. If you install threaded inserts in your bench you can install the mount in a matter of a minute or two and the quick change feature allows you to mount your various presses or devices to a plate that slides into the mount and locks in place with a couple thumb screws. This allows you to switch between different presses and other devices (Dillon or RCBS bench swage, trimmer, bench vise or whatever) in a matter of seconds. If you get the storage racks for the plates it also allows you to store your plate mounted articles on the wall where you have space available.
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Re: Starting from scratch

Post by GasGuzzler »

Wait until you move.

I too have a custom mount made of boards to clamp to furniture but it's not ideal.
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Re: Starting from scratch

Post by jamesgpobog »

I started cold a couple decades ago, but because I am not high volume, I've plateaued at advanced beginner/lower journeyman, so I my setup is fairly basic.

I starte with Lee, and absolutely love their stuff. Is Lee Rolls-Royce type quality? Nope, but what it is, is top shelf value that might not be beatable by anyone. Example: I just ordered a few small repair parts to keep handy and they were free. As in FREE. Some gun mfg's do free warrantee repair, but I have never in my life seen a parts order that comes up $0.00

I started with the hand press, and really like it, but it is S-L-O-W. However, for load development it rocks. A hint: when de-capping, dump the press OFTEN. The spent primers collect in the hollow shaft, and if you load it up, you will jam the press real good, you can't remove the shell or shell holder. Ask me how I know... :roll:

I then graduated to the Classic Turret Press. I like it, though you have to rig some sort of contraption to catch the spent primers. Mine includes tape, card stock, some coat hanger wire, and a small coffee can. :roll:


So, here's a comprehensive (I hope) list of my set, in rough order of acquisition. This does not include the little stuff like case chamfer and primer pocket tools.

Lee Hand Press
38/357 dies
Lee dippers

Lee Safety Scale
Classic Turret Press
Lyman case trimmer
Lyman Turbo tumbler
More dies
Lee micrometer powder measure

Hornady powder trickler
More dies
Extra turrets for quick change


If you're starting with dippers, I just discovered the secret for total flexibility with them. At first, I stayded limited to loads that the dippers would throw. As soon as I got the powder trickler the light went on... Find your desired load, find the dipper that throws a charge just below what you want, then trickle onto the scale up to correct weight. Most will probably say "Well, DUH!!!", but I can be dim sometimes.

Using the trickler is slow, but I still use the hand press and now the trickler for load development, so time isn't much of an issue.
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Re: Starting from scratch

Post by Rossi 92 .357 UK »

I'm just about to start reloading myself and was looking at purchasing the Lee 50th anniversary Kit, a friend is going to show me the basics and I'm looking forward to learning something new and saving money. Bullets are expensive in the UK 50 x .38 special are around £18/$22.50 and I've been told by my friend that he reloads 100 for around £12/$15.

What are peoples opinions on the 50th anniversary Kit?
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Re: Starting from scratch

Post by GasGuzzler »

Post a link to the kit so we are all on the same page.
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Re: Starting from scratch

Post by Rossi 92 .357 UK »

GasGuzzler wrote:Post a link to the kit so we are all on the same page.
Hi, this is the kit.
http://leeprecision.com/50th-anniversar ... r-kit.html
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Re: Starting from scratch

Post by GasGuzzler »

Take this for what it's worth but I hate the scale. The one that came with my LCT kit would never stop moving. I sold it on eBay very quickly and cheaply and never looked back.

Others here with much more experience and knowledge like them. Not me.

I've never used that powder measure but others like it. I use an RCBS Uniflow.

All the small pieces are very cheap to acquire outside of the kit and not all needed so count those as free throw ins. Not all brass needs trimmed.

All that said you'll be fine with that kit ASSuming it's a good price.
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