158 Grain SWC Hollow Ponts!

[jdb]

That's what I said, 158 grain semi wad cutter HOLLOW POINTS. LOL

I'm just kidding of course. I'm sure a lot of you guys have heard of these Hornady rounds, but I'm wondering if any of you have ever loaded any?

The thing is, I have a BUNCH, as in an unlimited supply, of 158 grain swc ammo...which I cast myself using a VERY hard lead/zinc alloy...so that I could load them in hot 357s for out at longer distances from my 686 Smith without fouling. Works a treat, but the thing is, I ALSO have a couple BIG boxes of Hornady 158 grain swc hollow points I picked up cheap at a gun show a while back and never got around to loading.

What I'm wondering is, has anyone loaded any and can give me some guidance for just how hard I can push the Hornady hollow point SWCs in my 92 Rossi before I start to get fowling? My original plan was to use them in my Smith, but you can get away with more in a handgun than a rifle, so now I'm a little concerned.

I'd LIKE to be able to come up with a load that would allow me to use the home cast rounds to sight the gun in at range and then be able to load the hollow points so that they have the same POI out at that range for hunting.

I was TOLD by someone that these hollow points are not only accurate, but VERY effective on medium game. I just haven't had a chance to load and test them for that yet. I KNOW I can load my home cast as hot as I want without fowling, so my plan just comes down to how hot I can load the Hornady ammo.

If anyone could give me some guidance it would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Archer]

I don't know Hornady's lead bullets very well.

I seem to recall that Speer's are essentially pure lead swaged to shape and as such are not for the higher velocity ranges. I've also had problems with Speer's .45 ACP 200gr LSWC in semiautos wrt feeding both from a shape standpoint in that the nose is much shorter than the typical SAECO 200 grain LSWC AND from the standpoint that the softer lead (compared to casting alloy) tends to dig into and hang up on any little ledge or edge the round sees on the way to the chamber.

[jdb]

I don't know Hornady's lead bullets very well.

I seem to recall that Speer's are essentially pure lead swaged to shape and as such are not for the higher velocity ranges. I've also had problems with Speer's .45 ACP 200gr LSWC in semiautos wrt feeding both from a shape standpoint in that the nose is much shorter than the typical SAECO 200 grain LSWC AND from the standpoint that the softer lead (compared to casting alloy) tends to dig into and hang up on any little ledge or edge the round sees on the way to the chamber.

Oh well, I was just hoping someone had had some experience with them so I didn't have to do a bunch of testing to get close. As far as feeding, The Hornadys swc HP have a nearly identical profile to my home cast swc and those cycle perfectly through my 92. The only difference is that my home cast have gas rings and the Hornady have gnarled sides. So I'm sure that will effect performance some AND it may effect how much leading I get since it effects how much of the bullet is contacting the rifling. I'm HOPING that it's designed by Hornady to minimize leading. But how knows.

This is the bullet from their site and that is EXACTLY what they CLAIM it's for. LOL



It says they are a cold swaged and they only list it as a 38, but we all know that they put in a 25% or so safety factor into ALL ballistics data to cover their rears. I guess I'll just have to start at the top loads and keep increasing it till I get a FOBAR. LOL

Thanks for the response Archer!

[mr surveyor]

I recently loaded 80-85 of the .45 acp Hornady 200 swc's (same general profile as depicted above) that were in a partially used box ... age unknown. I didn't trust the condition of the original Hornady lube, so I tumble lubed them with LLA. I wouldn't mind running across a big batch of these.

JD

edit to add .... mine weren't hollow points though

[jdb]

I recently loaded 80-85 of the .45 acp Hornady 200 swc's (same general profile as depicted above) that were in a partially used box ... age unknown. I didn't trust the condition of the original Hornady lube, so I tumble lubed them with LLA. I wouldn't mind running across a big batch of these.

JD

edit to add .... mine weren't hollow points though

Yeah, mine are pretty old as well Surveyor. I'll probably follow your example and re-lube them.

And I don't know if you've ever gone to any gun shows...or if there are even any anywhere around where you live, but if you do a search for gun shows in your area, I suspect you'll find one or two year round. Take the time to go and sooner or latter you'll find the bigger 500 round boxes of the bullets setting on a table back off out of the way somewhere. That's what I was doing when I found these. Just wondering around the shows looking for deals.

And sometimes if you find someone with quantities of other bullets on their table, if you'll ask, they WILL have what you want and just didn't bring it with them and you can work out a deal to get them after the show. I've had that happen too. The cool part about that is that if they didn't bring them, it's because they don't sell many and will give you a good deal just to unload them. That's always a good thing.

By the way, a sub sonic, pure lead, 200 grain swc Hollow Point in a 45 acp...are you KIDDING me? Now THAT would make THUMP when it got down range. LOL

I wonder if Hornady actually makes the 45 swc in a hollow point. That seems like it would be a relatively cheap and very effective close quarters round for home defense that you could afford to practice with the same round you shoot. Now you've got me thinking dang it? ;~)

[mr surveyor]

yep we have 6-8 gun shows per year within 45 minute drive, but I started tapering off on attending them all some 4-5 years ago. I think I picked up the partial box of the 45 acp 200 gr swc's at a gun show a few years ago and didn't get around to messing with them until a couple of months ago. Or I may have found them on a dingy shelf at one of our backwoods gun shops.

I wonder if the bearing surface of this type bullet with a proper coat of LLA would play nice in the .44 mag? I did like what I saw in the 45 acp. I'm still a rank rookie reloader, and now at age 61 I'll probably always consider myself the same. If I were 20 years younger, or even had a possibility to retire in the next 10 years (assuming I'm not drooling by then), casting would be on my "to do list". I would definitely want to attempt to cast that style of bullet to give it a good wringing out in .44 mag and .357 mag.

JD

[jdb]

yep we have 6-8 gun shows per year within 45 minute drive, but I started tapering off on attending them all some 4-5 years ago. I think I picked up the partial box of the 45 acp 200 gr swc's at a gun show a few years ago and didn't get around to messing with them until a couple of months ago. Or I may have found them on a dingy shelf at one of our backwoods gun shops.

I wonder if the bearing surface of this type bullet with a proper coat of LLA would play nice in the .44 mag? I did like what I saw in the 45 acp. I'm still a rank rookie reloader, and now at age 61 I'll probably always consider myself the same. If I were 20 years younger, or even had a possibility to retire in the next 10 years (assuming I'm not drooling by then), casting would be on my "to do list". I would definitely want to attempt to cast that style of bullet to give it a good wringing out in .44 mag and .357 mag.

JD

LOL, yep. I'm always looking for the dusty stuff myself.

As to the 44 swc like those, AB SO LUTE LY. ;~)

I still have a few left from my last batch. Shoot great.

Of course, with home casting, they will all have gas rings instead of the gnarled sides like the Hornady cold swaged swc do. With those they punch a chunk of cold lead into a die shaped like a bullet to get it to shape.

I've never seen bullet molds for hot molding with anything but gas rings. I'm sure someone makes one, but I haven't seen them.

Oh, and while I've been doing it for a LONG time I'm still a novice. Heck, I'm surprised every time I try something new. I never seem to have it figured out in advance. I do something and the exact opposite of what I thought would happen is exactly what happens about every time.

Of course, that may say more about my intellect than my experience. LOL

[Ohio3Wheels]

Lee makes some of their pistol molds that cast with fine groves rather than traditional grease groves. They're intended for tumble lubing with LLA.

I've not tried any of them but some of the guys on the cast bullet forum I belong to swear by them. They also swear by a tumble lube mixture of 1 part each, Johnson paste was, LLA and paint thiner. They due say use it out side to keep peace in the family

[mr surveyor]

yep we have 6-8 gun shows per year within 45 minute drive, but I started tapering off on attending them all some 4-5 years ago. I think I picked up the partial box of the 45 acp 200 gr swc's at a gun show a few years ago and didn't get around to messing with them until a couple of months ago. Or I may have found them on a dingy shelf at one of our backwoods gun shops.

I wonder if the bearing surface of this type bullet with a proper coat of LLA would play nice in the .44 mag? I did like what I saw in the 45 acp. I'm still a rank rookie reloader, and now at age 61 I'll probably always consider myself the same. If I were 20 years younger, or even had a possibility to retire in the next 10 years (assuming I'm not drooling by then), casting would be on my "to do list". I would definitely want to attempt to cast that style of bullet to give it a good wringing out in .44 mag and .357 mag.

JD

LOL, yep. I'm always looking for the dusty stuff myself.

As to the 44 swc like those, AB SO LUTE LY. ;~)

I still have a few left from my last batch. Shoot great.

Of course, with home casting, they will all have gas rings instead of the gnarled sides like the Hornady cold swaged swc do. With those they punch a chunk of cold lead into a die shaped like a bullet to get it to shape.

I've never seen bullet molds for hot molding with anything but gas rings. I'm sure someone makes one, but I haven't seen them.

Oh, and while I've been doing it for a LONG time I'm still a novice. Heck, I'm surprised every time I try something new. I never seem to have it figured out in advance. I do something and the exact opposite of what I thought would happen is exactly what happens about every time.

Of course, that may say more about my intellect than my experience. LOL

jdb

I figger that recognizing myself as being a rookie at everything I do allows me to wake up every morning in a bright, new, exciting world. Keeps things interesting (and entertaining)

jd

edit to add.... the soup can molds that Ohio3Wheels mentioned would be my choice for tumble lubed, but those "knurled" design cold swaged HNDY bullets really caught my attention, and have piqued my curiosity. How are they made?

[jdb]

Lee makes some of their pistol molds that cast with fine groves rather than traditional grease groves. They're intended for tumble lubing with LLA.

I've not tried any of them but some of the guys on the cast bullet forum I belong to swear by them. They also swear by a tumble lube mixture of 1 part each, Johnson paste was, LLA and paint thiner. They due say use it out side to keep peace in the family

LOL, I heard THAT! I bet that is a toxic brew. My wife whines when I temper a knife blade in the oven. She'd break something I need if I started that mess in the house too. ;~0

Yep, I have a few different Lee molds. Most have the normal gas rings, but a couple do have a little different design. Not sure they are what you are talking about. Without digging them out I can't remember exactly what they look like, but Lee makes good molds. I've been pouring with Lee dating back to the beginnings of my black powder days in the late 60s and I've never had a Lee mold that didn't reliably cast THOUSANDS of rounds.

I think I may look into those 3Wheels. I'd be interest to see what they are. I'm always interest in trying something new. Especially if someone tries it first so I don't have to spend the money to find out if it works. LOL

But I haven't bought anything new from Lee in a few years, so it sounds like I should see what they are offering now.

jdb

I figger that recognizing myself as being a rookie at everything I do allows me to wake up every morning in a bright, new, exciting world. Keeps things interesting (and entertaining)

jd

edit to add.... the soup can molds that Ohio3Wheels mentioned would be my choice for tumble lubed, but those "knurled" design cold swaged HNDY bullets really caught my attention, and have piqued my curiosity. How are they made?

LOL, yep. It's great to "brand new" every single day ain't it? ;~)

As to how they do the gnarled gas checks on their swc bullets. I'm not sure how Hornady does it, but there are really only 2 ways. Either a two part die system that has the gnarling on it so that when they close on the lead dummy, it strikes the shape of the bullet and the gnarling at the same time OR a series of two part dies that do it in stages.

The other way would be to, once the dummy has been struck into a bullet shape, roll it past a flat die with the pattern on it that presses it into the sides. At least if I were designing a process for producing them in volume, that's what I would do. It doesn't take much pressure to form lead.

One of the benefits of cold swaging of materials like lead, brass and some of the other more malleable metals is that as they are bent, hammered or formed under pressure, they actually get a little harder. I suspect that's why Hornady cold swages. Heating those metals will actually relax the molecules and soften them to their natural state. So cold swaged bullets probably really do lead foul the barrel a little less. Cool huh?