Rio Grande Scratched Cases... Bolt Binding

[Ranch Dog]

I took the rifle down, a number of times to try to find out what is scratching the cartridges.



I did a bit of polishing on the various components inside the receiver but did not find the source of the problem as the cartridges are still being scratched.

With the 45-70, I do expect to see recoil generated wear on the magazine tube at the cutout where the retaining screw passes between the barrel and the tube. Both barrel and tube have the recess but the tube is what will take a lick'n. Marlin learned this with the early 444 and moved away from the band to an end cap on the forearm. JES Reboring will rebore/rechamber any Marlin 336 to 444 Marlin but recommends only models with the forearm cap be used.



You can see a light break in the tube on my rifle, not really a problem as I have some early 444s that look like this but it has been my experience that the cutout must be perfectly aligned to minimize wear. I check this on any 336 that comes into my possession and most need the base of the tube trimmed to bring them into alignment. There is no cure for a tube that is too short. Here is the mismatch on the Rossi.



Filing the base of the tube to slowly bring the cutouts into alignment.



Rossi has seemed to make a number of improvements to small parts. All the parts are made by BrazTech, nothing come from outside of the Company. For instance only solid pins are used, no roll pins. One neat change is on the bolt is that the rear firing retaining pin, a roll pin on the 336, has been changed to a threaded Allen plug. That is really neat.



Back to the scratches on the case. It relates to what I mentioned in my last post concerning the aft portion of the bolt as it starts it forward movement across the upper radius of the hammer. The aft portion of the bolt is pressed up and in response the forward portion to the bolt is pressed down against the carrier. This pressure seems to cause the carrier to bind as it tries to drop. The cartridge is caught in the middle. My question for the Rossi guys is could the main spring be causing this unnecessary pressure? Is this the principle issue with the '92, and an issue that Steve Gunz kit solves?

This pressure on the bolt also causes me concern with the wear on the lever. Back to the image in last post.



Notice that the portion that passes through the bolt is quite a bit lighter than a 336. The only effort in another wise smooth action is the effort to get the bolt beyond mainspring pressure but that effort might ultimately cause wear on this portion of the lever. Your comments are appreciated? I do not know Nate Kiowa Jones but if he wasn't a six hour drive from me I would have already been knocking at his shop door as I've not been able to find any comments in detail about the RG series yet, only the '92.

Please also note that this is not an expression of dissatisfaction with the firearm, Rossi has sold me as the RG is exactly what I hoped it would be.

[Ranch Dog]

I worked with the rifle a little bit more this evening, just a few minutes and reference my closing comments in the above post, I think it is the aft, bottom (base) for the bolt causing the hang up. Not the mainspring or anything else. Again, that little bit of delay in the cycle and the forces applied to the various parts at that particular moment seems to because the case scratches and I suspect, wear. A picture is worth a thousand words, or so it is said.





The second picture shows the shape of the lower portion of the bolt that cocks the hammer but that is what hangs up on the way back. Any suggestions for dealing with this? I'm pondering just reshaping it by hand with a file so it passes back over the hammer better.



What I'm thing is a flatter surface underside as it is the bulge below the "red line" that is causing the bolt to bind against the hammer. This "cut" would not effect the action of the bolt against hammer, cocking, as nothing has changed. I tie wrapped the hammer back slightly lower than the contact on the return, still bumping with aft movement and the action is very slick, with not a scratch on a case as it empties the tube.

Come on Rossi guys, any thoughts or suggestions?

[Ray384]

That bump is found on most lever actions and on the Thunderbolt pump. I think it`s purpose is to make sure the hammer gets pushed back far enough. On my Marlin (can I say that) I noticed Longhunter polished the top of the hammer and bump when he tuned it.

Some fellow on a forum removed the bump from a Thunderbolt and ended up trying to get another bolt.

The thing to worry about is the Marlin Jam. Do a search on this, the Rossi RG has the same sharp radius on the lever.

[Ranch Dog]

The portion of the bolt that I lightly dressed does not make contact with the hammer on the aft stroke, only the forward stroke. It was causing the hammer to move forward and bind with the bolt placing an upward motion on the bolt, binding it. I dressed that forward flat edge of the bolt, just aft of the locking bolt slot, because it looked unfinished. I chose it over the hammer and its radius as it finished and perfect. Your point should be heeded by all though! Really study what you are going to work on.

On the first light stroke of the file I could tell that surface was not even or flat. As I remember, it took three or four light strokes to dress it flat. As it turns out, held against my 3030B bolt, it looks identical and it would not have without the work.

[Ray384]

My RG is scratching the .30/30 brass also. I`ll give this a look.

I am experiencing an extraction problem, that is intermittent. I`m thinking a burr or something. The extrator seems to be okay, although, I did read an article about Marlins and adjusting the extractor, but can`t find it again now that I need it.

[Quinc]

Has anyone tried contacting Rossi and asking them what the purpose of it is, or if it's just a lack of quality control?

[akuser47]

Take down some of the thickness on the extractor on the top of the bolt to see if that helps not sure if it is side eject or top but my .38 and .37 brass were being destroyed to usless after being shot and I ground it down on my 92 and replaced the ejector spring and fixed it not sure if it will be the same in the RG. Have you done a lead cast of your boreto see if it needs cleaned up? Has to be fixable once found? keep us posted.

[Ranch Dog]

Has anyone tried contacting Rossi and asking them what the purpose of it is, or if it's just a lack of quality control?

Quinc, not sure what you mean but the "purpose of it is". I just think it is a product of the rifles not receiving much of a degree of hand finishing. An older Marlin spent quite bit of time in the hands putting it together while adjusting the fit. Not much time is spent finishing the rifle at the factory or it could not be offered at the prices you see it. Some of this might be worked out it the wash down the road as we are looking at some really new rifles.

Quality Control is probably graded by how many rifles are returned. I would suspect that many are not returned for this type of stuff so the user is some to blame.

[Quinc]

Has anyone tried contacting Rossi and asking them what the purpose of it is, or if it's just a lack of quality control?

Quinc, not sure what you mean but the "purpose of it is". I just think it is a product of the rifles not receiving much of a degree of hand finishing. An older Marlin spent quite bit of time in the hands putting it together while adjusting the fit. Not much time is spent finishing the rifle at the factory or it could not be offered at the prices you see it. Some of this might be worked out it the wash down the road as we are looking at some really new rifles.

Quality Control is probably graded by how many rifles are returned. I would suspect that many are not returned for this type of stuff so the user is some to blame.

You would think that someone with decision making power at least shot the gun a couple of times and noticed that bind on the return stroke, or noticed that the brass was getting scratched. I expect to get what I pay for but little things like that just shows they don't take much pride in their work..

[Ranch Dog]

You would think that someone with decision making power at least shot the gun a couple of times and noticed that bind on the return stroke, or noticed that the brass was getting scratched. I expect to get what I pay for but little things like that just shows they don't take much pride in their work..

You also need to remember this is only one sample out of a very early rifle. I had one of the first production rifles that I'm aware of, before I saw any other advertised or in the stores. My late model RG3030 was perfect.

Taurus has made quite a turn around in the last decade. I've worked enough with them that I think they really care and know that you are choosing their products and placing them in front of you for self defense. I hope that ethic will flow into the Rossi lineup.

That said, my Braztech R92 is perfect in function, not like the R92 of past. It does not need the typical fluff and buff. I would swear that the action spring that I bought from SG is the same as what is in the rifle. May be they do take notice. The only thing this rifle needed was replacing the magazine follower from plastic to metal. I'm having trouble with scope base security and may be they did address this as well. May be that is why the only "Scout Rifle" now cataloged is the 357 Mag and even it is not available.